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Post by soccerrouge on Feb 13, 2008 22:56:17 GMT -6
Here's my beef - and my opinion - (after posting the D1-D6 all district selections, I read what I thought I'd read):
My personal feeling is that All-District selection is one big phase of individualizing a team sport. Although I, in know way, have the knowledge to say who, what, where, when, and how All-District got started, I would be willing to bet it didn't get started by a boy/girl in a sport one day standing up and proclaiming: "Hey, I want some type of recognition that shows everyone that I'm better than most of the rest of these boys/girls on this team and for that matter, better than most of the rest of these boys/girls in this district.". No, I would bet it was started by some parent, somewhere. Maybe the parent was a coach, school official, LHSAA member, or whatever, put I would imagine that's how it got started. Then of course, getting identified in that group wasn't enough, so someone came up with further separation to claim the difference with MVP awards.
For me, it doesn't make any difference what the number is you put on the list, all that does is effect the percentage numbers. If you do as some have stated and select an 11 or 12, then you get ~10% who get a boost, ~10% who feel OK, 60%+ who have been demotivated/angered/or upset, and the rest that it doesn't make that much difference to. Anyway you slice it, the large percentage of the "team members" are impacted in a negative manner. Of course, many will say, "They just need to get over it, in everything someone will always be better than someone else.", and that's an opinion which everyone is entitled to, but for me it is completely disruptive to team cohesiveness. Then there are those who would say: "Well if they are angry or upset, then they need to work harder to try and achieve it" - Shouldn't they be working harder to play as a team to win a championship? Not trying to get better than their teammate so that they get individually recognized. Normal competition in practice is a natural positive way of pushing players to get better.
All of this I've said so far, is taking into account that the actual best players are selected by the coaches for the All-District selection, which, to me again, rarely ever happens. So add this "small"(sarcasim) addition to the mix, and the negative impact of this process grows even further. Now, not only do you have individuals who feel they made a large impact but were not recognized demotivated, but you have individuals who everyone feels made a large impact that are completely demotivated.
Of course, we could go further with the issues surrounding the lack of recognition of defensive players in this whole All-District process, and I won't even start with the lack of respect for defensive players in the Defensive MVP selection. That's a thread within itself.
Other suggestions of having the students(players) vote for nominated players won't solve the issues, in my eyes, either. I'm sure when the coaches started this process (way back), it was pretty good at selecting a team viewed right by the popular view. I think the same would happen by having the students vote, it would start good, but then gradually get slighted in some form or fashion, and negative impacts will grow.
I guess before someone says: "Oh, well I guess you, soccerrouge, are one of those: 'Give a trophy to everyone and eat snacks" kind of person, I'm absolutely not. I believe you should reward for what the sport is intended. In other words, a team wins a tournament - reward them, a team wins district - reward them, a team wins the state championship - reward them. That's the awards I believe in for this sport.
Of course, I'm not living in a dream world, I realize that All-District & other individual awards will continue on long after I'm gone, but I also feel it doesn't take away the fact that the negative impact far outweighs any (if there is any) positives. Let's face it, there are far too many negatives in the world already today.
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Post by thegator on Feb 13, 2008 23:31:36 GMT -6
Sorry, It is TOOOOOOO late to read something THIS serious! (smiling) I will respond later! :-)
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Post by burtvincent on Feb 14, 2008 0:22:58 GMT -6
I have to agree with everything that you said soccerrouge, I dont even pay attention to the all district honors anymore. The current system has made the term meaningless. In our district, CHSNI has not beaten St. Louis in three years yet they consistently place more players on 1st team all district and on the all state team. This backs up your point that its a team game. The three straight district championships is what matters
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Post by qpsoccer on Feb 14, 2008 0:54:48 GMT -6
seen alot of all district teams over the years and this D1-D6 roster is the worst in quite some time. while soccerrouge is right, this injustice tends to demotivate players, this is not the only fallout of the poor selections. the coaches' credibility must be called into question. i think this group has lost alot of respect and it won't get any better until someone stands up for change. even if one or two coaches want to do the right thing, block voting will stop it every time. while the average spector may not know alot about the game, he/she can usually tell a quality player from another. SO WHY CAN'T THE COACHES?
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Post by sokerfan on Feb 14, 2008 7:07:51 GMT -6
Wait, you haven't seen anything yet. I know the results of district 4 and something needs to be done about the systems in place because girls deserving were SCREWED. More when it comes out today.
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Post by soccerrouge on Feb 14, 2008 9:08:41 GMT -6
Just one clarification on my part: This opinion is one I have held for quite some time, and really has nothing to directly due with D1-D6 selections, you can take any division and any district.
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Post by blacksmith on Feb 14, 2008 9:38:29 GMT -6
So is all district an Award or a Reward. It is an Award if there are 10% as you state, it is a Reward if you give 50% or more of your district athletes a 'thumbs up'. By the way, you do not build team cohesiveness in the summer. Summer is when the individual player develops his/her skill to return to the 'team' a better player in the fall when 'teams' begin building.
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Post by lcpsoccermom on Feb 14, 2008 9:48:46 GMT -6
The selection is political just like any other process to recognize individuals who participate in a team activity. This holds true at this level all the way up to professional sports. But it is still important to recognize individuals,because that is what we do in America. It is a lesson for those children who are contributors on a team to understand how important they are. The "stars" won't shine without supporting players. And many "stars" are overlooked for many different reasons. It is imperative that parents have constant conversations with their athlete children to honestly look at themselves and to honestly look at the system in place. Not to be negative and whiny, but to accept it for what it is - an imperfect way to honor some of the best players. Some will get left off, that is the nature of it. I disagree though that the athletes themselves wouldn't do this on their own. Everyone wants recognition by their peers, it is universal.
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Post by barbedad20 on Feb 14, 2008 9:57:13 GMT -6
I disagree though that the athletes themselves wouldn't do this on their own. Everyone wants recognition by their peers, it is universal. Hit the nail on the head..... I would love to see an All District Team voted on by the players.... that would mean a lot more to the selections than the way they are selected now.... Great post soccermom!!
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Post by soccerrouge on Feb 14, 2008 10:58:11 GMT -6
I disagree though that the athletes themselves wouldn't do this on their own. Everyone wants recognition by their peers, it is universal. I appreciate your opinion. My point is the that if this system would not already exist (the individual awards system), then I do not see any teenage kid standing up and saying I want recognition for how much better I am then the rest of my team. Your second sentence I agree with. Everyone wants to be recognized. I feel that in the perfect world, your concept of young players understanding their importance in a support role is great. However, I don't feel we live in a prefect world or even close, and my point is still: is that little bit of positive worth the greater negative that is felt across the board. Just my feeling. Hey, I know its not going away, so anything to try and improve it would be a great idea.
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Post by soccerrouge on Feb 14, 2008 11:02:01 GMT -6
By the way, you do not build team cohesiveness in the summer. Summer is when the individual player develops his/her skill to return to the 'team' a better player in the fall when 'teams' begin building. Don't ever recall making a notion in my opinion about the summer.
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Post by picklebreath on Feb 14, 2008 11:09:33 GMT -6
Barbedad20: "I would love to see an All District Team voted on by the players.... "
-WOW... there's enough drama in girls sports as it is, don't you think? This would only be a popularity contest and in my opinion wouldn't solve a thing. The All-District team selection process needs to not try and be so "politically correct" and stop worrying about trying to include everybody. Obviously, some players will be diappointed, but it's the nature of the beast.
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Post by cgcsu on Feb 14, 2008 11:33:32 GMT -6
Soccer as a whole has a recognition problem in LA. When you read an article in the paper about a game (which rarely happens in the 1st place), you read about who scored. You don't read about how player "a" did in the midfield or how player "b" did as stopper. An all-distict team is an opportunity to honor those players who won't get their names mentioned any other way. Sure soccer is a team sport but realistically there are some kids who are good players on teams that just don't have the overall talent to go very far in the playoffs. Or kids who put in the extra work when no one else on the team does. It's good to see those kids get recognized. Maybe those kids aren't as good as kids on the better teams, but sometimes that is hard to judge because they don't have quality players around them feeding them passes or getting open to receive passes or being able to finish goal opportunities. Soccer needs all the recognition it can get and an all-distict team is 1 way to get that. In my hometown paper you can read the basketball box scores and a short article about the games everyday. Soccer not so much (even though soccer coverage has increased even over last year). Hopefully seeing an all-district or all-city team in the paper can help influence an athlete's decision to play soccer over some of the other sports.
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Post by bucsfan1217 on Feb 14, 2008 11:35:50 GMT -6
I think this all depends on team dynamics. For example: Yesterday Div II Dist 1 all district was announced at my daughters school. I happened to be around 4 of our players after school picking my daughter up from track practice. Some of the girls made it some didnt. I heard nothing but congratulations from the girls that didnt, and nothing but encouraging words from the girls that did for the ones that didnt. The only negative comment I heard was from a girl who made it, criticizing the selection of another team member that made it. However, that particular individual is not known for her team attitude to begin with.
Yes there are girls that will be disappointed. That is a part of life sometimes and it is an important lesson for young people to learn. As parents, we will all see our children disappointed at some point, but we support and encourage them, and they learn from the experience. I try to teach my daughter, that any recognition she may acheive in a team sport, she must realize that her teamates are a large part of the reason for it. But it is also important that she learn that hard work and dedication pay off in the end. I guarantee you some of the disappointed girls will want to work harder next year which in the end benefits not only them, but the team as well.
As for the selection process, I am sure there may be a better way. I'm not sure letting the girls vote would work , just because of school loyalty etc.
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Post by 2cents on Feb 14, 2008 11:36:04 GMT -6
Individual honors in a team sport will always be difficult to manage and a matter of opinion by whomever does the choosing. Popularity plays a big role, and in the case of girls soccer in Louisiana, so does the personality of the coach. Vocal coaches with strong personalities and with a strong desire to get his/her players recognized will overshadow laid-back coaches. Also, a lot of negotiating likely occurs behind closed doors (more likely for Metro and State honors).
If honors are given (and they obviously are), you will always have the majority of players (who care about the individual honors.....most probably do) disappointed. IF DONE RIGHT, then it shouldn't matter whose feelings are hurt, because the deserving soccer players get recognized. We do not live in a society where everything is equal, so the lists should include a set number of players, honoring the best, not placating everyone who participates in the sport.
How to determine "the best" seems to be the problem. I like the "AW S***" factor myself. Ask the coaches (or players) which player, for each position, they say to themselves "AW S***, we have to play against her!" If you let the players vote, midfielders pick midfielders, offensive players pick defensive players, and vice versa. If the coaches vote, then the coaches cannot vote for their own players. Leave the parents out (we are WAY to biased!).
Just my 2cents.....
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Post by soccerrose on Feb 14, 2008 12:07:51 GMT -6
The best thing to do is not have all district teams it hurt more players than it helps because it will never be done right ,coachs will always try to get as many of their players on the team
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Post by diverdo on Feb 14, 2008 12:45:06 GMT -6
The girls already have their own OPINIONS as to who is "all-district" and who is not - we are left with the coaches' opinions which are arrived at through a political process not a true assessment of performance on the field. Prime example is last year's MVP for Northshore District in Division I where Hannah McCormick was NOT selected MVP in the district but was selected STATE MVP for Division I- there is no logical explanation other than agendas on the part of the coaches other than recognition of performance.
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Post by nwlasoccerfan on Feb 14, 2008 13:30:39 GMT -6
This might be one issue where the kids are a little better grounded than the parents. I think that they see All District teams as an adult thing where the adults know much less than the kids. They know who the better players are, who is a hard mark, who has ball skills, etc. If you listen to them, you will find that they are unimpressed with many of the standards that the adults use in selection. Leading the district in scoring with most of your goals coming against the bottom teams will not get much respect, hustling in a close game will. They are pleased if they or their friends are selected, a little disappointed if not.
In all, just not that important to their game: they will still try out for the team next year and give as good of an effort one way or the other. There is a much more balanced view of what it actually means.
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Post by Mung on Feb 14, 2008 13:45:28 GMT -6
The sad part here in Cenal is that the All-District soccer teams won't come out in the newspaper for another couple of months, though our teams have been finished playing for a couple of weeks now. Soccer is not important enough to do a story on until they combine a page with the basketball all-dist kids.
To a certain extent, all-district, like any other all-star team, will be political, and being subjective, talented kids get kept off, while less talented coaches kids/petsget on. You'll never fix that. It starts when the kids are 8 or 9 playing softball.
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Post by picklebreath on Feb 14, 2008 14:31:02 GMT -6
The best thing to do is not have all district teams it hurt more players than it helps because it will never be done right ,coachs will always try to get as many of their players on the team Now thats just silly!
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