a sensible ref. Shock

[furriner]

At ODP event in last week the following happened. These games basically meant nothing, they were exhibition games for exposure to regional coaches.

Louisiana is winning handsomely and the other team is getting frustrated. Florida kid (I am not joking abot this, not have I mixed up the teams) is starting to get humiliated, and takes out LSA kid from behind, very late.

Ref spots it, ensures LSA kid is not badly hurt and walks Florida kid to touchline, telling coach to bench him for the rest of the game. Everybody sees kid getting punished (coach chewed him a new one), another kid gets playing time and the game is not further imablanced.

I guess technically the ref should have shown red (as several on sideline were calling for), but it was refreshing to see sense being used by the center. Any thoughts, especially with youth games?

[coachray40]

I think there are more than just a few sensible refs, and I have seen quite a few use this approach. I think a lot has to do with the relationship between officals and coaches, and I think it is respectful to the coach to let them know that player needs to be subbed off rather than hammer him immediately with a red card--within reason of course. Recently I had this scenario in a 7v7 game in Baton Rouge. There was about 10 minutes left and we were losing by 3. While our effort was there, our play wasnt, and it was obvious that we were not going to get back into the match. My guys were getting a bit frustrated, mostly at themselves, and one of my players made very over ambitious and reckless play from behind a player from the other team resulting in a foul. The Center went over to my player with and game him a good bollocking, and them came over to me and told me to "sub him off, and do not return him to the match or he will be immediately ejected." I was cool with it because we didnt have to play down a man in match we were already out of and struggling. I thanked the official after the match for the gesture.

Before anybody says "well that type of action wont teach the kid anything", I'll tell you, the player apologized to me, the other coach, the player he fouled, and the official after the match, and then came back the next week to play probably the best match of his life, scoring two goals, and doing so with class and sportsmanship. In this case I think the ref did the right thing and the player got the message.

[Pitchstalker]

I've had this happen several times with teams I've coached, recreational and high school. I think most often it will happen between officials and coaches that know each other and respect each other.

[lakeview]

Yeah, I've had ref's ask me after a stupid foul: Do you want him coach?

Player leaves the field, calms down, gets the question: What are you trying to do? If the wrong answer, he's through for the day.

I would not recommend this approach in a game that has "meaning". At ODP camps, it's really not about what team wins, but showcasing players. A true "friendly", maybe so, a scrimmage, okay. The games one might consider this approach are few. A Premier League Game, Regional Premier Game, Tournament, etc....these games mean something. To not send a player who deserves to be sent is denying justice to the team that was offended. Using this approach needs to be in very selective situations. It may look good on the surface; but it also sends a message to players that in this game on this day, there are no penalties to my team for misbehaving nor or there any longer term penalties for the same to me.

This is very analogous to catching a criminal in a felony act and telling him/her to go away and don't do it again.

Just my opinion.

[lakeview]

I agree that in a "meaningful" game the player should be carded.

But, I have seen at SS games (and college) at Westfelt? (Tulane) cases of persistent infringement, stupid play, etc, where the ref, rather than another finger-wagging in the face or "You're going in my book next time", simply asked the coach to remove the player, by word or gesture. To a coach, this is a gift and the players got time to think about their actions.

I have read that in 95 degree heat, the brain cannot function as it should. Running 3-4 miles in a half, and making countless decisions, is overwhelming. It's not a matter of a player at rest running upfield 7 yards, and 5 yards to the sideline, and then another rest.

I only say that this potentially sends the wrong message to other teammates, opposing players, coaches and spectators. It should be used in very rare cases. Send offs are part of the game. Where is the line crossed? There are consequences to actions.

People always ask for "consistency". I can see cases where this will not only bite the referee in this particular game but for other referees in future games. Can this casue grief to the referee in the next game that deals with it "correctly"? Certainly can.

Be careful here.

Again, my opinion.

[happyjack]

I'd be interested to hear what the assessor had to say at the ODP camp to that official. Punishment should fit the crime, and allowing this behavior definitely sends a message to the other players that this type of play is acceptable. What happens when the second kid does it? Does he get a free pass? And the 3rd? 4th? Sorry, but players at ODP are supposed to be the cream of the crop, and this is not acceptable behavior of potential Olympic players (ODP _ Olympic Development Program). These are top players who know what they are doing, not first year players never haviong played before. And a frusration foul? Even worse

My opinion, my thoughts...

[soccerfan06]

When I attended ODP camp the instructions to the referees was to get the guilty player out of the game and allow another player from that team to play. This allows more individual players to "show" for scouts. This was not considered to be a "team" game and the victory was not as important as the display of individual talent and skill. I assure you that a high caliber player did not want to leave the game for committing a stupid foul.

In regard to the first reply by coachray40. I was the referee for that game. The foul was not a send off offense but the reaction of the player to the caution was the reason I "strongly suggested" that he leave the game and not return. You know me and I am not shy about issuing a send off when it is appropriate. I thought it was handled correctly.

[chelsea007]

A red is a red is a red. If refs were to issue these as they are needed and at an earlier age, this type of play wouldn't be around. To have it happen at an ODP camp isn't a positive reflection of Louisiana soccer. I have a friend from England and he is shocked at what is allowed to take place on the pitch here in the states. He also pointed out that we didn't have any centers or ARs in the past world cup. I don't want to tell you what he would say about the above posts. I agree with Happy Jack. Just my thoughts.

Not the "official" word but I was told that refs were asked at ODP to not send players off. But to just ask the coach to have them removed. This event is about seeing players play and showcase their talent. The final scores were not an issue. Pulling a player off allows someone else to step forward and have an opportunity to "show".

On the other hand, one ODP coach said he wanted out of control players sent off. That would give other players on both sides to show how they react under the stress of playing a man down or against a team a man down. Another point of view.....

I tend to agree with the later view

[lakeview]

hey chelsea, what about the ref from Great Britian who did not show a card, or call the foul play when Frings swatted the ball off the goal line in 2002 - USA v Germany. A little lax on the call, don't you think?

I've never been impressed with foreign refs.

And don't me started on Dr. Merk. I do enjoy Pierluigi, the best that's even been!

[chelsea007]

I guess Becks must be an ODP player... he should have been shown a red vs DC United. Funny though, he got upset vs the Red Bulls for a vicious challenge on him. Consistancy would be nice. As I said before...a red is a red is a red. I guess now we will ahvbe the Michael Jordan effect in the MLS now that Becks is here. That sux!

[chelsea007]

Lakeview, yes that call was terrible. But, that being said...in my opinion, the refs in the MLS are pretty bad when compared to European Refs - especially those in the EPL. Mistake free games, it won't happen. Even the aforementioned Colina Pierluigi blew a major call in the champions league when Chelsea beat Barcelon a couple of seasons ago. It helped my Blues win...but it was a bad call all the way. Anyway, these are just my opinions...nothing personal.

[lakeview]

Heard that 2 EPL ref's are no longer welcome to referee. One called an unfounded PK and one AR disallowed a goal, I believe.

As Uncle Bill Clinton, our first First Man, said, "mistakes were made."

[number3]

lakeview said:

hey chelsea, what about the ref from Great Britian who did not show a card, or call the foul play when Frings swatted the ball off the goal line in 2002 - USA v Germany. A little lax on the call, don't you think?

I've never been impressed with foreign refs.

And don't me started on Dr. Merk. I do enjoy Pierluigi, the best that's even been!

Hugh Dallas, from Scotland.