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Post by furriner on Sept 30, 2007 9:14:47 GMT -6
In an RPL game, kid gets a yellow for interfering with keeper releasing ball. The question I have, is how close to keeper does one have to be to keeper to interfere. In yesterday's case, the kid in question was five yards outside of 18. Any thoughts?
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Sept 30, 2007 13:06:50 GMT -6
In an RPL game, kid gets a yellow for interfering with keeper releasing ball. The question I have, is how close to keeper does one have to be to keeper to interfere. In yesterday's case, the kid in question was five yards outside of 18. Any thoughts? Doesn't matter how far, if you ATTEMPT to interfere with the keeper, you get the yellow. |
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Post by fhsboy15 on Sept 30, 2007 18:43:42 GMT -6
another question, if a goalkeeper is bouncing the ball, are u aloud to take it once he releases it out his hand?
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Sept 30, 2007 21:14:29 GMT -6
another question, if a goalkeeper is bouncing the ball, are u aloud to take it once he releases it out his hand? Nope, the keeper is still maintaining position as he bounces the ball. The 6 seconds does not start over for each bounce either. |
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Post by furriner on Oct 1, 2007 8:23:44 GMT -6
Nope, the keeper is still maintaining position as he bounces the ball. The 6 seconds does not start over for each bounce either. with high school season starting soon, and the notorious condtion of some fields: what hapens if the ball sticks in mud when it is being bounced? Is that loss of posession? CAn keeper still pick up ball? |
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Oct 1, 2007 9:40:34 GMT -6
Nope, the keeper is still maintaining position as he bounces the ball. The 6 seconds does not start over for each bounce either. with high school season starting soon, and the notorious condtion of some fields: what hapens if the ball sticks in mud when it is being bounced? Is that loss of posession? CAn keeper still pick up ball? I would state that control has been lost and the ball would become playable. I am not 100% sure on this though. |
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Post by cenlacoach on Oct 1, 2007 12:48:49 GMT -6
Would be a loss posession by the keeper... look at Rule 12-7 Art. 1. The interpritation would be that the ball is then in play because the keeper does not have control of the ball. Conditions would not be an issue. Tough break for the keeper!
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Post by cenlacoach on Oct 1, 2007 12:50:11 GMT -6
Sorry that Rule location is in the NFHS Soccer Rules Book for 2007-2008.
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Bench Warmer
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Post by on Oct 1, 2007 14:10:51 GMT -6
Perhaps, the spirit of the law may prevail here. A whistle is usually blown to indicate an infraction which has resulted in a team gaining an advantage by breaking the law. I would not fault a referee here if he/she allowed a GK to pick up the ball and put it into play under the right circumstances. Nor could I fault him/her for blowing the whistle. And the definition of right circumstances is pretty broad. Maybe the sprirt of the law can be called upon to prevail rather than the letter.
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Post by tonygalinto on Oct 1, 2007 21:44:19 GMT -6
Perhaps, the spirit of the law may prevail here. A whistle is usually blown to indicate an infraction which has resulted in a team gaining an advantage by breaking the law. I would not fault a referee here if he/she allowed a GK to pick up the ball and put it into play under the right circumstances. Nor could I fault him/her for blowing the whistle. And the definition of right circumstances is pretty broad. Maybe the spirit of the law can be called upon to prevail rather than the letter. Great explanation. I would personally not call anything based on the ball getting stuck in the mud on a bounce and the G/K picking it up again. You are very correct about the spirit of the law prevailing over the letter of the law in this situation. |
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Post by ronaldo11 on Oct 2, 2007 8:21:11 GMT -6
another question, if a goalkeeper is bouncing the ball, are u aloud to take it once he releases it out his hand? im not sure this question was understood completely. it's one thing talking about the goalkeeper bouncing the ball around in the area before attempting to kick it (discussed) ...... it's another thing talking about the goalkeeper actually kicking the ball from his/her hand position (not dicussed.....until.....) ......when a goalkeeper releases the ball from his/her hands in order to kick it, sometimes strikers nip in between that moment, take the ball away and score. however, this is not allowed. in this particular action ----- -the goalkeeper holding ball out in front to kick it -the goalkeeper releasing ball from hands in order to kick it -the goalkeeper kicking it -(or the goalkeeper letting the ball bounce and kicking it while the ball is on the up (half-volley type)) ------- all of that is considered to be ONE action. even though its technically 2 or 3 things happening, the rules shall see this as ONE action. any interference within this ONE action is a foul. not sure if thats what was intended with the original question, but interesting nonetheless |
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Post by soccerfan4life on Oct 2, 2007 20:08:03 GMT -6
Still WISE Beyond your Years, Ronaldo11... Hope all's going well on your end!
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Post by on Oct 3, 2007 6:30:16 GMT -6
The original question was how close does one need to be to be interfering with play. I think that was answered. You bring up some other interesting points that really deal with "what is GK possession?".
The Advice to Referees defines possession in 12.16
The GK is considered to be in possession of the ball while bouncing it on the ground or while throwing it in the air. Possession is given up if, while throwing the ball into the air, it is allowed to strike the ground. While the ball is in possession the of the GK, it cannot be lawfully played by an opponent and any attempt to do so is punishable by a direct free kick.
12.17 discusses preventing putting the ball into play
"An opponent may not interfere with or block the GK's release of the ball into play. While players have a right to maintain a position achieved during the normal course of play, they may not try to block the GKs movement while he or she is holding the ball or do anything that hinders, interferes with, or blocks the GK who is throwing or punting the ball into play. An opponent does not violate the law, however, if the player takes advantage of a ball released by the GK directly to him or her, in his or her direction nonviolently."
In my opinion, referees making this decision should consider whether the GK's team is better off with the punt or the IDFk if the GK was prevented from putting the ball into play. If a player makes an attempt to block the GKs release of the ball but does not achieve success in this attempt, is it better to bring the ball back, put it at the GKs feet for an IDFk? Or is he better served allowing the GKs release and barking a word or two at the defender. Every situation is different. If the defender's attempt to block the release of the ball is successful, the FK must be awarded. But let some common sense prevail. Let's remember the purpose of a free kick is to provide a advantageous situation to an offended team. Think about these situations as what is best for the offended team AND also for match control/player management. Let those decisions guide the final decision.
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Oct 3, 2007 7:22:25 GMT -6
The original question was how close does one need to be to be interfering with play. I think that was answered. You bring up some other interesting points that really deal with "what is GK possession?". The Advice to Referees defines possession in 12.16 The GK is considered to be in possession of the ball while bouncing it on the ground or while throwing it in the air. Possession is given up if, while throwing the ball into the air, it is allowed to strike the ground. While the ball is in possession the of the GK, it cannot be lawfully played by an opponent and any attempt to do so is punishable by a direct free kick. 12.17 discusses preventing putting the ball into play "An opponent may not interfere with or block the GK's release of the ball into play. While players have a right to maintain a position achieved during the normal course of play, they may not try to block the GKs movement while he or she is holding the ball or do anything that hinders, interferes with, or blocks the GK who is throwing or punting the ball into play. An opponent does not violate the law, however, if the player takes advantage of a ball released by the GK directly to him or her, in his or her direction nonviolently." In my opinion, referees making this decision should consider whether the GK's team is better off with the punt or the IDFk if the GK was prevented from putting the ball into play. If a player makes an attempt to block the GKs release of the ball but does not achieve success in this attempt, is it better to bring the ball back, put it at the GKs feet for an IDFk? Or is he better served allowing the GKs release and barking a word or two at the defender. Every situation is different. If the defender's attempt to block the release of the ball is successful, the FK must be awarded. But let some common sense prevail. Let's remember the purpose of a free kick is to provide a advantageous situation to an offended team. Think about these situations as what is best for the offended team AND also for match control/player management. Let those decisions guide the final decision. The proper way to handle it if the player tries to block it but miss it, let play continue, and at the next stoppage caution the player... On the high school level, if the player does not know about this rule, he would get a quick welcome during the season, if its in the playoffs then he needs to play his game on how they got there and not try and block a punt. |
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Post by on Oct 3, 2007 7:38:19 GMT -6
My suggestion, if the offense is serious enough to warrant a caution, you need to stop play there and then. If you can get the desired change in behavior with a butt chewing, why not use that method?
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Oct 3, 2007 7:42:14 GMT -6
My suggestion, if the offense is serious enough to warrant a caution, you need to stop play there and then. If you can get the desired change in behavior with a butt chewing, why not use that method? If you use a butt chewing method would be fine too, but the time would be during the next stoppage. However, you must realize that jumping infront the keeper is not only a method used to get the ball, but it is also used to frustrate the keeper to help you score and get him out of his game. 9 times out of 10 when you chew a player out for jumping infront of a keeper kicking the ball, he will say im "sorry sir, I didn't know you couldn't do that" |
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Post by ronaldo11 on Oct 3, 2007 12:20:04 GMT -6
Most of the time, goalkeeper's kicks go straight to the other team. Very rarely do they start promising attacks. The referees hardly ever let play continue.
As a player, if a goalkeeper likes to sprint out to the edge of the box, I sprint to the area in front of him, but outside of the box. Being 22-23 yards out, it is impossible to 'block' the keeper.
Before i get bombarded for that, its what my current, local club coach wants me to do!
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Post by furriner on Oct 5, 2007 8:54:53 GMT -6
Most of the time, goalkeeper's kicks go straight to the other team. Very rarely do they start promising attacks. The referees hardly ever let play continue. As a player, if a goalkeeper likes to sprint out to the edge of the box, I sprint to the area in front of him, but outside of the box. Being 22-23 yards out, it is impossible to 'block' the keeper. Before i get bombarded for that, its what my current, local club coach wants me to do! This was my original question. So long as you do not then move side to side to block the kick, or jump "before the ball is in play", if you are 5 yards outside box, how can you be interfering? |
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Post by ronaldo11 on Oct 5, 2007 11:32:27 GMT -6
being outside of the box, it isnt interfering with the keeper. thats the point. you can also run alongside the goalkeeper, as long as you're not too close to him to put him off. if he suddenly turns direction and runs into you, most referees still see this as obstruction of the keeper.
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Oct 5, 2007 19:46:39 GMT -6
Most of the time, goalkeeper's kicks go straight to the other team. Very rarely do they start promising attacks. The referees hardly ever let play continue. As a player, if a goalkeeper likes to sprint out to the edge of the box, I sprint to the area in front of him, but outside of the box. Being 22-23 yards out, it is impossible to 'block' the keeper. Before i get bombarded for that, its what my current, local club coach wants me to do! This was my original question. So long as you do not then move side to side to block the kick, or jump "before the ball is in play", if you are 5 yards outside box, how can you be interfering? Depending on your body position and exactly how far. Because you can block and force the keeper to put more height on the ball to get over you, and less length, therefore it can become interference |
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