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Post by chelsea007 on Jan 7, 2011 23:18:33 GMT -6
Just curious. What if both coaches and both sets of players say the ref totally blew it. You assume the ref has someone in his corner. The coach and the team in this instance were class after the match. They were almost ashamed of the win, This is a VERY good team that hated winning that way. In short, we took care of business for 80 minutes, Phantom PKs and a non-call on a very obvious pk that should have been called for us was enough to make me throw up. Oh well...the game is done, but to dismiss the fact that the guy with whistle can't impact a game beyond revovery is naive in my opinion. Refs are all capable of honest mistakes, but to imply these brain farts can be overcome in the other 78 minutes is not cool. When score lines are 2-1 etc...one or two (or 3 in our case)blown calls make a difference. Like I said in an earlier post, refs generally do fine work and should be commended, What I am talking about is where the blown/questionable call is an obvious backbreaker. In short, I told my guys that the whistle blew, we got screwed, lets move on. We won our next match and life goes on. I just ask that you don't belittle the importance of these blown calls. I just hope that at the end of the season, we aren't missing out on the playoffs as a result of this match. Coach Inman
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pop
All-District
Posts: 143
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Post by pop on Jan 13, 2011 8:58:24 GMT -6
We had similar situation in a recent game.. Both coaches and most parents as well as host school AD and Admin. agreed the crew was very poor. Bad calls on both sides. But game wasnt close, so not a determining factor. What did bother me was the deliberate pushing and shoving that none of the 3 man crew saw that almost resulted in a fight. With some player intervention and yelling at players by coaches we managed to calm down the players.
But as for what can be done.... well you can utilize your scratch form. The AD was supposed to contact the head assigner, which I hope he does. Because I would hate to use all 3 of my scratches on one match. Thankfully we won, but some major calls were blown [but wont get into that]
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Post by sonics3 on Jan 13, 2011 9:50:39 GMT -6
Just curious. What if both coaches and both sets of players say the ref totally blew it. You assume the ref has someone in his corner. The coach and the team in this instance were class after the match. They were almost ashamed of the win, This is a VERY good team that hated winning that way. In short, we took care of business for 80 minutes, Phantom PKs and a non-call on a very obvious pk that should have been called for us was enough to make me throw up. Oh well...the game is done, but to dismiss the fact that the guy with whistle can't impact a game beyond revovery is naive in my opinion. Refs are all capable of honest mistakes, but to imply these brain farts can be overcome in the other 78 minutes is not cool. When score lines are 2-1 etc...one or two (or 3 in our case)blown calls make a difference. Like I said in an earlier post, refs generally do fine work and should be commended, What I am talking about is where the blown/questionable call is an obvious backbreaker. In short, I told my guys that the whistle blew, we got screwed, lets move on. We won our next match and life goes on. I just ask that you don't belittle the importance of these blown calls. I just hope that at the end of the season, we aren't missing out on the playoffs as a result of this match. Coach Inman Coach Inman, I know exactly what game you are referring to. Being associated with the other team, I have no problem saying that you are absolutely correct in this case. You guys outplayed us and deserved that match. Good luck to you guys the rest of the year.
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ref05
Bench Warmer
Posts: 11
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Post by ref05 on Jan 13, 2011 22:48:09 GMT -6
Referees are a dimension of soccer - not a focus but a consideration. Referees do not strive to be the focus, or set out to determine the outcome of the game, but sometimes that is what happens (take the case of a last minute PK that may or may not be given). The laws of the game are subject to several caveats (like trifling infringements, careless versus reckless versus excessive, etc.) that empower the referee to use judgment and to keep flow in a game. I personally think this is what helps make it such a great sport - there is a human element that not only considers the players and the coaches, but game management by the officials. That is not a facet that sits well in a society with an 8-official NFL with instant replay mentality.
Good officials manage well, keep up with play as best as possible, make good decisions, and set the bar at a level that is appropriate for the game. I dare say that there is not a referee, including myself, who hasn't made a call that in hindsight he/she would like to take back. With experience and practice these are few and far between, but still they can happen in any game. Hopefully, an "unlucky" decision will even itself out over time with a "lucky" one.
That said, I cannot help but to point out to Coach Inman that he scratches 5-6 referees annually (counting the boys and girls scratches), including a couple or refs with more than 10 years of experience and a State Referee who has never even refereed a game for Covington! So given this, the referees he sees are basically those he must want and newer referees, as they come from the limited pool who remain after the child and scheduling conflicts by the assignor are taken into account. Coach Inman accounts for 90% of all the referees "scratched" by the referee association in a given year.
That said, if I give out 10 cautions in a match, a caution is becoming almost meaningless for game management and my credibility is low. But if I manage the borderline stuff properly and give out half as many, I probably keep the game in check as I retain credibility and the use of both a caution and the threat of a 2nd caution on those that may need it the most. In the same way, maybe a little reflection on who really needs to be scratched would benefit their team - and a coach may want to follow the example set by most other teams in not scratching anyone and talking to the assignor about who you would like and who you'd "rather not" see in the middle due to a legitimate recent issues (not some issue from 5 years ago). Treat the assignor and referees as partners and not servants. You then gain credibility with your assignor and will see better referee crews and minimal controversial calls that really matter. To fill up your scratch sheets with old sour grapes and who knows what else when all the other coaches don't resort to that may not be the right answer, coach.
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Post by chelsea007 on Jan 14, 2011 13:51:41 GMT -6
Thanks for your reply ref05. Now how about being mature and adressing your concerns with me personally. I would do the same for you. By most accounts, I would say that I am fair and honest. I would gladly work with anyone to improve the game we all love. To imply that I see referees as servants is actually condescending. The irony is, that implication alone shows who is viewed as the "servant" in this case. Clearly I am the one being viewed in a subservient role. It would seem as though, according to you, that I should gain credibility in the eyes of the assignor in order to have my status lifted. Surely this "suggestion" seems to show my position to be the inferior one in your eyes. When it is STATED that my credibility with the assignor WILL lead to better crews and fewer contoverial calls, I have an issue with that. I would only hope that the assignor would put the game, and the student athletes that play the game, first. As for the scratches, it is my right as a coach per LHSAA and I do so based on history. I do not take these decisions lightly. When your chances at the playoffs rest on a razors edge, I don't want an inexperienced crew on what I feel is a crucial match. In short, I feel like we were stiffed in the past and potentially missed out on the playoffs due to some very poor referee decisions. I originally went the route you suggested concerning the assignor, but feel I was met with little or no success. That is when the process of the scratch was put into use. As far as percentage of total scratches etc. - that is irrelevant. What other coaches do should not come into the equation. Our situations as coaches may be different and should be treated individually. If you, ref05, were scratched, I am sorry for offending you. On the scratch form there is a spot for the "reason" concerning the scratch. The assignor has access to this information. Might I suggest you check with him. The guys with the whistle are generally really good guys. Please feel free to pull up my recent post stating how much respect I have for the guys in the middle. I would say it is hardly the response of someone viewing referees as servants. I have given compliments to referees for a well called match AFTER a LOSS! Most recently, we lost to Fontainebleau, but the referees were very good as a whole. One of the referees on the match was a scratch at one time illustrating that scratches aren't permanent. As for the aforementioned match from the above post, I have been VERY cordial to the referee on EVERY occasion I have had since then. I have moved on. For some reason, this seems to be coming across as personal on your end, at least from my perspective. In short, if there is an issue concerning you (ref05), and myself, lets address matters. PM me here so as to set up a time and place. To post under a screen name and put forth what I see as a detailed message of this nature is immature in my opinion. It also, in the very least, seems unprofessional. I anticipate your PM and look forward to resolving this matter. As always, I sign my name - Coach Inman.
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Post by reddevil70737 on Jan 15, 2011 4:58:53 GMT -6
I think a lot of the times it is the coach and players not properly prepared mentally to handle the different styles of games one ref may call as compared to the next. I see it a lot in the girls’ games. I call a ruff but yet fair game. I protect the players, but yet at the same time I let them play. I see the coaches, players, and parents get all bent out of shape when little Suzzy gets laid out after a hard challenge on the ball. Instead of just adapting to the game she wants to retaliate with a bad tackle or a cheap shot. Refs may miss the initial foul , but almost always catch the retaliation.
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