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Post by Steven Gerrard on Jan 4, 2011 13:06:54 GMT -6
Boy, this thread (and several others in the past) just shows that soccer refs are more sensitive than any other sport I know of. That is not true. Go out and ref a couple of high school games and let me know how it feels to be berated by parents all game long, calling you an idiot and questioning every call or non-call that you make. Whether it is basketball or soccer or football, it all grows old very quickly. Ask any ref from those sports. They will all tell you the same thing. So, forgive us if we get sensitive when people take to the message boards to complain about the quality of officiating, when most of the time it exceeds the quality of play on the field (or the coaching).
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Jan 4, 2011 13:13:26 GMT -6
So when your attacker wiffs on the ball in front of goal do you "blow a gasket"? How about when he shanks an easy shot? Or that player that makes a fantastic touch at one end of the field only to dribble the ball out of bounds 20 yards later? Do you continue to berate these players for the remainder of the game? Or better yet, do you let them know after the game that it's all their fault your team lost? No, of course you don't. I can't understand why parents/players/coaches don't realize that the referees are just as human as the players - they're going to make mistakes and they're going to see things differently. Get over it and move on. Or, if you really are that wonderful, become and ref and show everyone how it's done. I am a ref and have reffed for several years. But offside on a thrown in??? that mistake shouldnt be made by a quality ref at the high school level. Pop, you are absolutely correct, that kind of mistake in interpretation of the rules should not be made. If a ref calls offside on a throw-in, then the coach should talk to the official about the call after the game. And, the coach should make the assignor aware of the issue. People want to know if refs can be held accountable, and they can be (and should be). The assignor should be made aware if there is a lack of knowledge of the rules by one of the refs to whom he assigns games. That is one of the ways that the level of officiating can improve. As a side note, as explained in this thread, the official in that game thought that the ball, after being thrown in, had touched the foot of an attacking player before it reached the attacking player who was in an offside position. He may have ultimately been wrong on whether it touched the first attacker's foot. But, that is why the offside call was made. Not because he thought that there could be offside on a thrown-in.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Jan 4, 2011 22:25:51 GMT -6
Gerrard, I make the statement having been a high school baseball, football, and basketball referee for years and after having done soccer about a year. It is different, from my view point, most officials for baseball, basketball, and football (actually the majority that I worked with across the state) could tolerate the yelling and screaming at them by coaches, parents, and players. However having been around soccer the last couple of years I notice a large portion of refs, who get all bent out just because a coach questions something they called. Very thin skinned bunch in my opinion.
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Post by furriner on Jan 4, 2011 22:54:28 GMT -6
Or, to word slightly differently, because the officials in other sports put up with abuse, I should too? Don't think so.
The rules are perfectly clear: dissent is a yellow; abuse / taunting is a red. I just wish this was carried out more in football (taunting an opponent while running into the endzone, for example).
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Jan 5, 2011 8:13:11 GMT -6
Gerrard, I make the statement having been a high school baseball, football, and basketball referee for years and after having done soccer about a year. It is different, from my view point, most officials for baseball, basketball, and football (actually the majority that I worked with across the state) could tolerate the yelling and screaming at them by coaches, parents, and players. However having been around soccer the last couple of years I notice a large portion of refs, who get all bent out just because a coach questions something they called. Very thinned skinned bunch in my opinion. My experience is different. In talking with and knowing officials in other sports, the feeling is the same. Soccer officials do not have a thinner skin. Either you have a thick enough skin to tolerate being an official (in any sport) or you don't. There is turnover in officials in other sports because of individuals not being able to tolerate the yelling and screaming at them by individuals. Same as in soccer. Back in the high school football playoffs, West Monroe had a game where the officials called 29 penalties against them. Of course, the fans took to the message boards in the days after the game to complain about the "lousy" officials. And, of course, other football officials took to the message boards to defend the refs who had called the West Monroe game. It was not any different then what you see on this board.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Jan 5, 2011 17:03:03 GMT -6
Or, to word slightly differently, because the officials in other sports put up with abuse, I should too? Don't think so. . No don't think that is the case. Its been my experience, at least with several of the crews I worked with, that a better line of communication exist with officials and coaches (at least) in other sports. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion !
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Jan 5, 2011 17:04:01 GMT -6
Gerrard, I make the statement having been a high school baseball, football, and basketball referee for years and after having done soccer about a year. It is different, from my view point, most officials for baseball, basketball, and football (actually the majority that I worked with across the state) could tolerate the yelling and screaming at them by coaches, parents, and players. However having been around soccer the last couple of years I notice a large portion of refs, who get all bent out just because a coach questions something they called. Very thinned skinned bunch in my opinion. My experience is different. In talking with and knowing officials in other sports, the feeling is the same. Soccer officials do not have a thinner skin. Either you have a thick enough skin to tolerate being an official (in any sport) or you don't. There is turnover in officials in other sports because of individuals not being able to tolerate the yelling and screaming at them by individuals. Same as in soccer. Back in the high school football playoffs, West Monroe had a game where the officials called 29 penalties against them. Of course, the fans took to the message boards in the days after the game to complain about the "lousy" officials. And, of course, other football officials took to the message boards to defend the refs who had called the West Monroe game. It was not any different then what you see on this board. Well as I said just now - everybody is entitled to their opinion. You've heard mine, and now I've heard yours.
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pop
All-District
Posts: 143
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Post by pop on Jan 7, 2011 8:50:31 GMT -6
Gerrard, I make the statement having been a high school baseball, football, and basketball referee for years and after having done soccer about a year. It is different, from my view point, most officials for baseball, basketball, and football (actually the majority that I worked with across the state) could tolerate the yelling and screaming at them by coaches, parents, and players. However having been around soccer the last couple of years I notice a large portion of refs, who get all bent out just because a coach questions something they called. Very thin skinned bunch in my opinion. Well oldhat not all refs are like that. I reffed and and coached for over 10 yrs different levels and can say there are 4 angles to the game.. as a parent, player, coach and ref. I can honestly say that the game is viewed differently from each angle. But ultimately the ref is the one that makes the call. Coaches are responsible for the players and answer to the parents, so yes they have the right to be slightly verbal on a questionable call. When I ref i will respect their opinion and answer at an appropriate time as long as it doesnt get out of hand. That usually makes a good relationship on the field with good game control.When they acknowledge a foul that i let play on and they object... well that tells me how tight they want the game called. Some like to let play go on others want a tightly called game. So if i can adjust within limits of the Rules of the Game, I usually do. If advantage applies. But as a coach it burns me when my players get cleat marks on his chest [ie..high kick] and nothing happens and he gets a card for going up for a header and his arm comes out which is called reckless. Arm did not change play. Consistency?
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Jan 7, 2011 10:21:53 GMT -6
pop, totally understand and agree with your views and approach, however I think you are in the minority of soccer officials - Need to grow more like you.
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Post by Fullback on Jan 8, 2011 19:29:36 GMT -6
Boy, this thread (and several others in the past) just shows that soccer refs are more sensitive than any other sport I know of. I have been a ref in other sports but I do believe that soccer refs need thicker skin. My opinion, if your not so worried about shutting up the loud mouth parent in the third row, just call a consistent game. Not agreeing with a call is part of the game! People want soccer to be taken seriously but don't want the fans to be passionate and express emotion ( to much in the wrong way). How many of you were screaming of at least mumbling during a bad call while watching the Saint's or LSU game? I was at a game the other day and watch a ref stop the game and ruined the flow to chastise a fan. After it happened one of the other spectators commented that this particular ref does it every game, needed or not. It is true that you don't have people beating down the doors to become refs. Most refs are not the best but have the most time to spare. Long rant cut short, you will not make every call. When you realized you made bad mistake, learn from it! High school coaches are making a living by coaching, you maybe making part time money. Check your ego at the gate. Never take the game away from the players, they have more invested in the game than any of us.
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Post by oldschool on Jan 12, 2011 16:11:47 GMT -6
On a related subject (offside), when the AR raises his flag indicating offside, and the center ref does not see the raised flag and play continues, how long should the AR continue to keep his flag raised? I recently saw a game where the AR put up his flag, the center ref did not see the flag and play continued, and after 20 - 25 seconds a goal was scored. The center indicated a goal, then realized the AR's flag was raised, conferred with the AR, then called off the goal. It appeared from this spectator that the attacking team no longer had an advantage from the actual offside infraction that occurred 20 - 25 seconds previously.
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Post by Ronaldinho on Jan 12, 2011 16:59:49 GMT -6
oldschool, I see your point, but it really doesn't matter if the goal resulted from something other than that offside. It is still the correct decision to make the offside call 20-25 seconds later - after all, if the call had been made at the point it should have been, the defending team would have gotten the ball, and it's likely the offensive team would never have managed to create that particular goal. It is the correct decision to go back and make the call. Actually, referees are instructed by USSF to keep the flag raised through up to 6 or 7 restarts...that can take minutes upon minutes!
Of course, I'm always dumbfounded at the center referees who do not even think to check with their AR on a close onside decision, and I'm amazed that any referee could actually go 6 or 7 restarts without glancing at his assistant. When I am a center ref, I make quick glances at my ARs constantly...any sort of pass up near an attacking player in the proximity of the defensive line, I will make a quick glance to the AR even if I don't really think it's offside. I can never EVER remember allowing play to go on and then getting screamed at by parents/coaches because I am oblivious to my AR's raised flag for offside. It really should never happen. Most center refs don't do a good enough job of glancing at their ARs. I think of my ARs as teammates, helpers that I should take full advantage of. Shouldn't it occur to a referee that a pass up to a forward near the last defender might possibly be offside...I'm amazed at some referees whom this just never occurs to, and they always have to get screamed at before they realize a flag is up.
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Post by cardsinhand on Jan 12, 2011 22:21:22 GMT -6
Actually, referees are instructed by USSF to keep the flag raised through up to 6 or 7 restarts...that can take minutes upon minutes! . 6-7 restarts .......really?
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Post by manchurianman on Jan 12, 2011 22:40:08 GMT -6
Deleted
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Post by Steven Gerrard on Jan 12, 2011 22:54:07 GMT -6
If the CR didn't see me, then I was told to keep the flag up until they turned out the lights after the game was over. I think that would make it 9 restarts.
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pop
All-District
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Post by pop on Jan 13, 2011 6:45:33 GMT -6
typically most ar's put the flag down once the threat has ended. If a goal has been scored or a corner kick or any offensive action takes place. The problem comes in when a foul has occurred and the flag is up back near mid field. If the foul draws a player to retaliate, is the card valid, should the player be caution or dq'ed? Had the CR seen the flag the play would not have progressed.
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Post by tonygalinto on Jan 13, 2011 12:55:42 GMT -6
If the CR didn't see me, then I was told to keep the flag up until they turned out the lights after the game was over. I think that would make it 9 restarts. I think you may be getting confused with "ball out of play" and "offside" as to how long you hold the flag up for these two things. When the ball goes out of play (crosses touch or goal line) then it's dead and anything occurring after that without the ball being properly put back into play can't count. Of course fouls and misconduct can still be punished. On an offside flag you can lower it if the referee hasn't seen the flag and the defense has gained control the ball. This is no different than if you have the offside flag up and the keeper gets it and the referee waves the flag down. In either case the defense has control of the ball and that resets the offside scenario.
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Post by futuredemon on Jan 24, 2011 14:26:10 GMT -6
Boy, this thread (and several others in the past) just shows that soccer refs are more sensitive than any other sport I know of. Not more sensitive this is just one of the few sites that have open comments for players, coaches, fans, and refs. Unlike football, baseball, or tennis. Given the situation an 8-0 win seems a bit barbaric to whine over a missplaced offsides call.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Jan 24, 2011 17:35:31 GMT -6
Boy, this thread (and several others in the past) just shows that soccer refs are more sensitive than any other sport I know of. Not more sensitive this is just one of the few sites that have open comments for players, coaches, fans, and refs. Unlike football, baseball, or tennis. Given the situation an 8-0 win seems a bit barbaric to whine over a missplaced offsides call. Actually the bold is not a true statement.
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Post by div1coach222 on Dec 28, 2011 19:46:55 GMT -6
I must agree they are so sensitive, but that is because their job is SO hard and the world is against them. They (officials) have to deal with ignorant parents and hot headed coaches...No other sport have to deal with that...LOL please be advised this was intended with HEAVY sarcasm!!!
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