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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 19, 2011 15:43:42 GMT -6
[quote author=oldhattrick3 board=Girls thread=13966 post=204370 time=1298095528;Gotta have my daughter on a good team that is winning so she can be seen, but not one with too many good players because I don't want her to be outshined by someone else, because then I'll have to find another team& Oh God, I can't belive you went there...even Alice does not want to get that hate mail. Sad, but true. And the usual suspects.[/quote] Yea Alice, I let it fly out. Pretty sure you experienced that type of episode once or twice in your time too.
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Post by miraddydad on Feb 19, 2011 19:59:54 GMT -6
"Gotta have my daughter on a good team that is winning so she can be seen, but not one with too many good players because I don't want her to be outshined by someone else, because then I'll have to find another team"
Gotta go with you there hattrick. I know some of those people.
I'm not saying anything against multisport athletes. What I AM pointing out, having played different sports and having been a multisport athlete, and now having been around soccer for a while, is that if a player wants to compete in proper fashion, that player can't abandon soccer even though they're playing another sport.
And for any kids that read this thread, ALL THE TALENT IN THE WORLD IS NOT WORTH ANYTHING IF YOU DON'T FOCUS FIRST ON YOUR STUDIES. That's the God's honest truth. I agree with hattrick again on that.
My youngest child decided very young that she wanted to focus on soccer. She eats sleeps and breathes it. Personally, I was hoping that if she only chose one, it would be softball because she was a jam up first baseman. But, she hated standing still. She does what she does because she loves it. The minute she decides she's through, I'm okay with that. I've told her to tell me when she's getting tired, and I let her participate in the decision making regarding her training.
My oldest is interested in other things. She LOVES to play soccer. But she wants to find the time to get touches, because SHE recognized that she couldn't keep up with other players. SHE wanted to get better so she could hold her own on the field. So, we're finding time to get her some extra touches.
And frankly, I don't care if the player is select in the offseason or not. Depends on what that kid is looking for. If they play rec, or in pick up games, or indoor, they still get touches. Yes, the best training comes from the select side of things, but again, that's not for everybody.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 10:14:30 GMT -6
Well, since I don't have a daughter that gives me the illusion of being objective.
First, excellence at soccer demands year round, full time participation.
Show me a high level college player, pro or international team member that didn't spend the bulk of their extracurricular time on soccer.
Second, I didn't tear down baseball. And, I played through my high school years, oldhattrick. In fact, I played against a future MLB rookie of the year. And he certainly didn't spend 12 months out of the year in a batting cage.
I think the "records being broken" statement is quite a stretch on your part.
Finally, there seems to be an attitude with parents (which trickles down to the kids) that you can "have it all".
Sorry, it just isn't true. Youth sports have become too competitive and specialized. And you don't get natural "muscle memory" with soccer unless you are spending time on it daily. (Because it's foot eye, not hand eye....)
On another level, every parent wants well rounded kids. Human nature dictates that we want our children to be successful in all their endeavors.
But, we seem to forget that failure and disappointment are part of growing up. Which is why I think a lot of kids have a hard time dealing with true adversity. Socially, academically and athletically.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 21, 2011 11:49:15 GMT -6
Second, I didn't tear down baseball. And, I played through my high school years, oldhattrick. In fact, I played against a future MLB rookie of the year. And he certainly didn't spend 12 months out of the year in a batting cage. I think the "records being broken" statement is quite a stretch on your part. Well good, we have something in common now, you played against a future MLB rookie of the year, and I coached a current MLB player a while back on a travel team. Don't have any issue with your opinions as stated (you have yours, I have mine), with the exception of the second one above. Why is a fact such a stretch?
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Post by speedy on Feb 21, 2011 12:03:16 GMT -6
Looks like Sokerfan already has his team picked for next year....probability of an 11 sophomore starting varsity squad...time is a wasting. We are all already behind. No time for bats. Stop bickering and start practicing! October '11 will be here, soon! Get ready!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 12:03:22 GMT -6
I look at general trends. Not currently being a baseball fan, I look at the number of foreigners playing in MLB. And the USA's record of international competition.
Much like basketball, the rest of the world is catching up.
No disrespect, hattrick.
To be candid, when it comes to soccer vs other sports, I tend to get defensive.
While it may be unrealistic, in my mind there are no ther sports.
That said, soccer is a different proposition. I've always maintained that, while it's okay (even beneficial in certain cases) to play other sports.....you can't put the soccer ball away for 8 or 9 months at a stretch.
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Post by griffDad on Feb 21, 2011 13:36:37 GMT -6
Just a few points: 1. Multiple sports does not have to mean "put the soccer ball away for 8 or 9 months" 2. Not everyone can balance multiple sports AND school (most important still!), but some can and do. 3. Maybe we should borrow a football technique that is used to overcome the long layouts - 2 a days - 7-10 hours a day over 2-3 weeks would definitely bring up the skill levels prior to season (or maybe 2 months of weekends). 4. When it is pushed that single sport has to be the way (as I have had several try to force down my throat), then if a great talent wants to try something else, soccer will lose a player, seen it happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 14:06:49 GMT -6
Wrong, 'dad'.
"Two a days" won't work for soccer. Besides, that's mainly a fitness approach anyway.
"Borrowing a football technique" makes about as much sense as a black man in a tanning bed.
Football isn't even a skill driven sport. Except (maybe) for quarterbacks and receivers to a lesser extent.
No one has said specifically not to play other sports. But, soccer isn't volleyball, basketball, softball or cheerleading. Playing some indoor/pickup and self training actually accomplishes a lot more than structured team training.
A player can get 1500 touches self training in a 45 minute, self training session.
Not sure what you mean by comment #4.
I think by high school age, a student athlete should at least be able to narrow it down to two sports. A serious soccer player plays soccer year round. Period.
But that doesn't mean he/she can't do anything else.
The "Bo Jackson principle" is woefully unrealistic today.
I've never seen it adequately applied to a soccer player either.
And I draw a clear distinction between a gifted soccer player and an exceptional "athlete playing soccer".
The womens game is different. But it isn't THAT different.
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Post by number10 on Feb 21, 2011 14:10:42 GMT -6
This is an interesting topic. I started playing soccer when I was 10 or 11 and joined a premier team in 8th grade. I played soccer year round for a very long time but as much as time allowed I also played other sports. (softball, basketball, track, volleyball) As I got older, I had to drop all the other sports because there were just too many schedule conflicts. My freshman and sophomore year, I was certain that I wanted to play soccer in college. Looking back, my junior year of high school I can see now that my priorities began to change. I started to realize how time consuming playing soccer at the next level would be. I became more interested in a social life, getting a job so I could have some spare money, etc. I knew then that I wasn't cut out to play college soccer. My senior year all I played was for my school and honestly wasn't all that distraught when we lost our quarterfinal game.
All that to say the desire for improvement MUST come from the player. Like it has been mentioned, parents can't live through the players...
Truth is most girls are not going to WANT to put forth the effort to continue improving once a certain skill level is reached and there will be other aspects of life that will begin to take priority of a lot, if not most, female athletes as graduation approaches.
Looking back now, 5+ years removed from highschool, I wish I would have. I wish I would have continued playing premier and I believe that I had the skill and knowledge of the game to play in college. But at the time, no one could have convinced me that the time and effort was worth it.
So if darling daughter does want to focus on soccer and has the desire and passion to play at a high level year round, that is the way to go. There is nothing wrong with playing other sports but the focus needed to develop an "elite" player isn't going to happen without year round, competitive, time consuming training.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 14:34:21 GMT -6
Great post.
As the saying goes, "we regret more the things we didn't do"....
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 21, 2011 15:19:54 GMT -6
This is an interesting topic. I started playing soccer when I was 10 or 11 and joined a premier team in 8th grade. I played soccer year round for a very long time but as much as time allowed I also played other sports. (softball, basketball, track, volleyball) As I got older, I had to drop all the other sports because there were just too many schedule conflicts. My freshman and sophomore year, I was certain that I wanted to play soccer in college. Looking back, my junior year of high school I can see now that my priorities began to change. I started to realize how time consuming playing soccer at the next level would be. I became more interested in a social life, getting a job so I could have some spare money, etc. I knew then that I wasn't cut out to play college soccer. My senior year all I played was for my school and honestly wasn't all that distraught when we lost our quarterfinal game. All that to say the desire for improvement MUST come from the player. Like it has been mentioned, parents can't live through the players... Truth is most girls are not going to WANT to put forth the effort to continue improving once a certain skill level is reached and there will be other aspects of life that will begin to take priority of a lot, if not most, female athletes as graduation approaches. Looking back now, 5+ years removed from highschool, I wish I would have. I wish I would have continued playing premier and I believe that I had the skill and knowledge of the game to play in college. But at the time, no one could have convinced me that the time and effort was worth it. So if darling daughter does want to focus on soccer and has the desire and passion to play at a high level year round, that is the way to go. There is nothing wrong with playing other sports but the focus needed to develop an "elite" player isn't going to happen without year round, competitive, time consuming training. A great different perspective on this subject. All that to say the desire for improvement MUST come from the player. Like it has been mentioned, parents can't live through the players... You are right "parents can't live through the players...." but that doesn't stop some parents from trying, it happens, believe me. Looking back now, 5+ years removed from highschool, I wish I would have. I wish I would have continued playing premier and I believe that I had the skill and knowledge of the game to play in college. But at the time, no one could have convinced me that the time and effort was worth it. I understand the looking back with some regret, because I have seen several girls look back, who were really talented that could have played at the next level (college). Most of them was just because they loved the game so much, however they all seem to tell me they still made the right choice to pursue other activities at that point of their life. I've also talked to some very talented players who landed college scholorships play soccer, just to give it up after 1 or 2 years, because other things became too important to them, including their academics and starting a life. So I guess my question to you is: I realize you regret not trying to give the college level a shot, but do you think the priority decision for yourself was wrong? These are all interesting opinions on this subject and number10 gives us another good perspective from someone who has gone through it. I know my key energy on this subject has really been centered around 2 things - 1) How sports, in general, have changed mainly by the ADULT influence, and 2) How much passion parents and coaches have about stressing the importance of the sport they desire (at the time).
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Post by number10 on Feb 21, 2011 15:35:08 GMT -6
Phew...digging all personal here. ;D kidding. This pretty much sums it up. I know I made the right decision, for reasons that most would not. I do think had I gone the college ball route, I would have been one that wouldn't have completed the four years. I will admit my drive to be the best came mostly from my parents. Not saying that it's a good or bad thing, just saying thats what it was. I just don't have the natural work ethic to put that much focus and effort into one thing. I was good, had a lot of natural talent, and understand the game better than most, but I would have had to put a lot of individual time to improve my skills. Maybe I should rephrase my original post to "I wish I would have had the drive and determination to continue with college ball." Because I don't regret the decision I made. I just wonder how things would have turned out if I would have put forth the effort. Another thing I'll throw out there, I don't know if I would have ever started premier if my parents hadn't greatly encouraged me. Take that for what it's worth. Which I think is what you are trying to get at hattrick.
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Post by griffDad on Feb 21, 2011 16:33:42 GMT -6
Hall - Two a days" won't work for soccer. Besides, that's mainly a fitness approach anyway.
Actually, it will, that is why we have residential camps that so much money is spent on. Just bring it to the individual teams at the school level. ;D
When I played (30 years ago in Michigan) We would have every day practice for 2 weeks before games began, and then cut back to 2 days.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2011 17:17:23 GMT -6
So, you are telling me that you can get a whole year's worth of technical ability from working intensely for 2 or 3 weeks?
Sorry, I'm not buying it.
This probably explains why so many of our mens college teams are filled with foreign players...to fill the 'technical gap'
Anyway, wouldn't this have more to do with NCAA rules/regs than a particular training methodology?
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Post by griffDad on Feb 21, 2011 18:00:21 GMT -6
No, actually, I am in agreement to train all year, whether by yourself, pickup games, wall ball, whatever to get the touches. However, with not everyone motivated to do that, an intense start to the season would do alot to build the team, learn the systems of play, help skills and just generally knock off any rust.
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Post by number10 on Feb 21, 2011 18:23:23 GMT -6
I'm amazed NOBODY has brought this up. Ok, a kid starts young, goes to camps, plays indoor or 6v6, ODP, and only down time is the LSA dead period in the summer, come, oh about 15 years old, the word "burnout"...or in the case of girls, the three B's, burnout, boys and drink. Am sure the coaches in the finals are happy Mardi Gras is after the finals...though they would never admit it publicly. That is what I meant by this... Truth is most girls are not going to WANT to put forth the effort to continue improving once a certain skill level is reached and there will be other aspects of life that will begin to take priority of a lot, if not most, female athletes as graduation approaches.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 22, 2011 7:24:22 GMT -6
I have to say for me number10, you sum up one point:
Demand (Adults) vs. Desire (Kids)
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Post by number10 on Feb 22, 2011 7:38:58 GMT -6
I have to say for me number10, you sum up one point: Demand (Adults) vs. Desire (Kids) Very true. I can see now that my parents crossed the line a couple times. Especially when they started to see my passion fade. It made for a few arguments and me being bull headed and saying "well why don't I quit playing all together." After that, they let me have other things in my life beside soccer. I understand that they saw the potential that I had, but I didn't have the desire to continue with it. Anyway hope you all enjoyed the other side of it and maybe take something away that you can apply with your daughters.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 8:04:56 GMT -6
I think this has less to do with "overzealous parents" and more to do with kids having too many choices.
I mean, that's what this thread is really all about....
Setting priorities vs the "cafeteria plan"....
Just because a kid plays soccer year round a. Doesn't mean their parents are "forcing or coercing them" b. Doesn't mean they can't be or aren't well rounded.
Granted, for the most part, we're talking about girls here....
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Post by licensedsoccerdad on Feb 23, 2011 5:58:12 GMT -6
This is a great thread with lots of varying viewpoints. All of the discussion may not result in a consensus opinion, but it sure is making every reader & poster think about the issues. My daughter is a freshman on a team playing in the finals. She sees significant playing time and only lacks year round touches to become that "special" player. However, up until this point she has not had the desire to play year round. That may change or it may not. A few years ago without her knowing what was involved, she tried out for ODP and made it. When it came time for ODP the next year, she had no desire to play. It seems like she is now a little more serious about Soccer, but it's hard for me to gauge because I don't want to seem pushy by asking her too much about her soccer plans after the high school season is over. It is very tough to watch your child with obvious talent not be committed to being the best player she can be. Wasted potential is a true source of regret later in life. For me, the struggle is how to deal with all of this. Do I lay off pushing her to participate more and risk her having regret later in life over missed opportunities and having to live with the "what ifs?" Or, do I push her to play year round in a structured competitive situation so that she reaches her potential? Those were rhetorical BTW. My approach is to tell her of every opportunity available to her and let her know that I will support her should she decide to take advantage of any of those opportunities. I am hopeful that this approach will pay dividends when she matures a bit more and sees what these opportunities can mean for her. However, in the end all I can do is guide her and make sure she knows I love her. I think that if we all do that, our daughters will be better for it.
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