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Post by miraddydad on Feb 17, 2011 8:55:59 GMT -6
Okay, I softened the title just a bit from "Club v Seasonal". I understand that not everybody can do club. Frankly, I really can't afford it myself, but being the masochist that I am, I pay the money.
So, let's go! My two cents - Kids should be getting quality touches on the ball all year. Can't say it any more plain than that.
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Post by gskrfn on Feb 17, 2011 14:19:41 GMT -6
I have 2 daughters that play soccer for their school. They only get seasonal touches because they also play volleyball and softball for their school. The smaller schools are certainly at a disadvantage in this regard.
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xavi
All-District
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Post by xavi on Feb 17, 2011 14:21:34 GMT -6
Year round if that is the players passion. Access to year round play and training should be more accesible for those who have the talent but lack the 'funds.' I am with you, I really can not afford it myself, but the training and development is so good I will continue to find a way to support my kids efforts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 14:23:25 GMT -6
It's okay to play other sports. But, to be a competent soccer player you need to get year round touches on the ball.
That's what seperates soccer from every other (team) sport.
How many top level tennis players only play during the school season?
None.
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Post by playermom on Feb 17, 2011 16:33:59 GMT -6
Year round soccer would help any player improve, but the problem is when you play other sports there just is not any extra time for year round soccer. The only time to squeeze some extra soccer in is the summer since those darn academics are not getting in the way. Her summer sports schedule includes twice weekly morning weightlifting, twice weekly evening cross country team workouts, bi-weekly 2 mile races, and seven on seven soccer on Sundays. The highlight of her summer sports is a 5 day team cross country camp. She attended LSU soccer camp last summer. What do y'all recommend to increase her number of touches?
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 17, 2011 22:22:19 GMT -6
It's okay to play other sports. But, to be a competent soccer player you need to get year round touches on the ball. That's what seperates soccer from every other (team) sport. How many top level tennis players only play during the school season? None. Wouldn't say that Hall, baseball players that want to excel have to practice batting and fielding year round, and most do.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 17, 2011 22:25:44 GMT -6
Fact of the matter is, that none of your little one's can make a profession out of soccer, realistically just will not happen. Focus your kids on academics and let them do soccer on their "free" time, if thats what they want to do. I really don't care what sport it is, if you are supporting year round soccer as your focus instead of academics, you have completely missed the boat.
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Post by freekick on Feb 18, 2011 8:05:33 GMT -6
From Soccermom- "Year round soccer would help any player improve, but the problem is when you play other sports there just is not any extra time for year round soccer. The only time to squeeze some extra soccer in is the summer since those darn academics are not getting in the way. Her summer sports schedule includes twice weekly morning weightlifting, twice weekly evening cross country team workouts, bi-weekly 2 mile races, and seven on seven soccer on Sundays. The highlight of her summer sports is a 5 day team cross country camp. She attended LSU soccer camp last summer. What do y'all recommend to increase her number of touches?"
While the game is certainly a team game, aquisition of technical skillls is essentially up to the individual. If a player is not willing to solely dedicate themselves to one sport, they can still improve their soccer skills if they wish, even with the schedule you outlined. Your daughter may be busy, but there are plenty of hours left in the day, even during the school year if kids manage their time efficiently.
No one can fathom the countless hours Pete Maravich spent alone with a basketball to be able to dribble and pass like no other. With 20 to 30 minutes a day of individual work every day, a player can transform their game in a matter of weeks. Daily juggling and Coerver drills. With a wall, they can pass and trap. With a small pop up goal, they can strike a ball until their leg falls off. With one other person (friend, parent, trainer) they can do Brazilian circuit drills and countless other skill drills.
Who can do this? Anyone that is willing to put down their remote control and cell phone for 30 minutes a day. How many kids will? Probably less than a handful in the state in any given year.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. ...Persistence and determination are omnipotent." -Calvin Coolidge
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Post by miraddydad on Feb 18, 2011 8:52:59 GMT -6
oldhattrick3, I don't think anybody was suggesting that kids not focus on academics. In fact, I presume that since we're talking about kids in school, that's just something that goes without saying.
Regarding your comment about "...none of your little one's can make a profession out of soccer...", again, that's not even a part of this conversation. We're talking about what helps develop soccer players.
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Post by playermom on Feb 18, 2011 9:02:49 GMT -6
Excellent suggestions on improving her skills. Y'all could probably write a book on summer skill training. And yes, academics come first.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 18, 2011 9:06:11 GMT -6
oldhattrick3, I don't think anybody was suggesting that kids not focus on academics. In fact, I presume that since we're talking about kids in school, that's just something that goes without saying. Regarding your comment about "...none of your little one's can make a profession out of soccer...", again, that's not even a part of this conversation. We're talking about what helps develop soccer players. miraddydad, just an observation of the common theme throughout this thread of comments of - spending time "to get touches to become better" - kid managing their time "to get more time practicing skills in soccer". My point, the world of sports has gone crazy, there should be a forum for "parents debating on how best for kids to manage their time to accomplish studies and academics to be their very best", instead of managing time to devote to a sport. Some kids drives are set by reading these post, and when they read this seeing that coaches (the guys in blue) and parents say we need to spend year rounding perfecting touches and skills to be able to play for our high school team, its just not setting the right drive. Been there !
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nola
Bench Warmer
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Post by nola on Feb 18, 2011 10:17:52 GMT -6
Most high school kids can manage their academics and play year round soccer (or whatever sport/cheer/dance). If they can find "free time" during the high school season, what is the difference during the rest of the year. Kids involved in sports are actually more confident, less likely to get involved with drugs or alcohol, etc., etc.
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Post by lowfarpost on Feb 18, 2011 11:27:04 GMT -6
Great Thread .... The problem (as I see it) is that to be more than just good at any sport, and especially soccer, you do have to play year 'round. Kids that are good enough athletes to, and want to, play multiple sports are always going to find it difficult to excel at any one of them. While they may be good players and be strong contributors to the teams they play on (HS or even club) but that is different than being a standout player. Most team sports, except football , requires touch, finesse and technique along with all the physical attributes to become a top level player (think of making a 3-pointer consistently or hitting a curveball). Those skills are developed with lots of repetitive work on whatever the skill is. The question for me is really what the desires of the player are. If they want to be a top level player and put in the time with the ball outside of practice then they should find a club team that can help them continue to develop. But (and I firmly believe this) there is not a player out there who became a top level player because of the team they played for. They are there because of their personal desire and the work they put in on their own. The club should be there to focus those efforts in the right direction and provide situations to challenge them to improve. I think it is great for students to play multiple sports. There are tons of positives from exposure to different coaches, players and challenges. These are skills that are invaluable later in life. Let them enjoy themselves. Life gets messy enough later on ....
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Post by methuselah on Feb 18, 2011 12:09:35 GMT -6
BINGO! For me, the desires of the student athlete has to be the primary consideration. It is their life. It is their high school years. Let 'em decide what they want to do.
That's what I did. My child (a son not a daughter - but since the topic was on this side I thought I'd join in) has been playing baseball since he was very young and excelled with the high school summer program. But he played soccer this summer in the 7 on 7 program and this fall (the first year our high school has a team) and he loves it. He chose to play spring soccer. I supported him fully with that decision. If he chose to play baseball I would have supported that choice as well.
For what it's worth I think most of the kids themselves love playing soccer more. It just the freedom of the game and running as opposed to sitting or standing and waiting.
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Post by freekick on Feb 18, 2011 12:20:16 GMT -6
"summer skill training"
These 3 words cut to the heart of this thread
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2011 16:03:18 GMT -6
Juggling, rebounding/volleys off a wall, and playing small sided pickup in the evenings.
lowfarpost is right on the money. Players have to be intrinsically motivated to excel.
Gonna have to disagree with oldhattrick on the baseball analogy.
Baseball doesn't require year round training at youth level. It's hand eye coordination. (As opposed to foot eye coordination with soccer.)
Sure, the youth baseball mafia will argue that playing year round makes better players. But, when was the last time someone hit .400 in the majors?
We aren't producing better baseball players than we were when I was growing up.
Parents are just spending more money.....
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Post by sarge384 on Feb 18, 2011 16:36:07 GMT -6
miraddydad, a lot of what you were asking has been, in some ways, already answered. All I can tell you is that I too faced the small school dilemma where the same kids played all of the sports for their school. My daughter played rec soccer from 5 to 10. At the U10 level she was asked to play premiere ball. Ironically, she sat out her U10 season because she was involved in track, basketball, softball, volleyball, and yes, even cheerleading, at the small school she attended. But, there came a point in time where she decided that she missed playing soccer more than anything. Because of this she returned to soccer and began playing Premiere ball with her club. By the time she was a freshman, we enrolled her in a Div I school. Because she was a Premiere player, and played all year round, she acquired the ability and was able to start in her first year. During this time she also had private sessions with some of the club coaches. Now, four years later, she still plays all year round between the Premiere Club team and High School ball. Playing all year round is definitely what makes the High School players better. But, like someone already said, it is not for everyone, it has to be what they want to do. It just happened that she gravitated back to the sport she truly loved.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 19, 2011 0:05:28 GMT -6
Juggling, rebounding/volleys off a wall, and playing small sided pickup in the evenings. lowfarpost is right on the money. Players have to be intrinsically motivated to excel. Gonna have to disagree with oldhattrick on the baseball analogy. Baseball doesn't require year round training at youth level. It's hand eye coordination. (As opposed to foot eye coordination with soccer.) Sure, the youth baseball mafia will argue that playing year round makes better players. But, when was the last time someone hit .400 in the majors? We aren't producing better baseball players than we were when I was growing up. Parents are just spending more money..... And we aren't producing any better soccer players than we were when I was growing up, ..........since we didn't have soccer. However, parents are spending tons more money there. Fact of the matter is we are producing better baseball players, basketball players, etc. Just a quick look on the college level will show you the records that have been broken for hitting streaks, hitting average, homeruns, etc. Same goes for basketball Take a look and see. Your comment that batting is hand eye coordination, when that is only 1 element of teaching batting proves to me you don't know much about it, so try not to tear down another sport just to support soccer (i.e. your additional comments like "youth baseball mafia", like premier soccer is much different) Before I go on, one clarification on a statement someone made on my comment that was not part of what I was saying. I am a firm believer in sports providing a good way for kids to stay active and healthy and out of idle time that could get them involved in "bad habits". However, if you think having your kids in sports an dedicated to a single sport year round is going to completely prevent "bad habits" you are fooling yourself. Been there and coached high school sports, club sports, and travel teams and some of your year round "atheletes" have some of these "bad habits". So as where it is a good thing staying away from idle time, its not the catch all for "bad habits". My point, as I'll state again, is about all sports and youth atheletes. From decade to decade, it has changed, why? we have gone from kids who enjoy playing many sports, lettering in 3 or 4 throughout their high school career to telling them that they have to choose 1 if they want to excel and dedicate their training to it, why? - 1 simple word - ADULTS - We are all guilty Why? - parents living vicarously through their kids (WARNING - those who argue this statement are probably the most guilty) - coach's desire to win win win - coach's promise of how much more they will develop and become great by joining their travel team / premier team / select team (fill in whatever name you want) - parents see a talent, and decide here is the route to get part of college tuition paid for - ding ding ding its scholarship time (yea yea, before you yell I know all about the college soccer scholarship short comings, so don't preach to the choir) "Gotta have my daughter on a good team that is winning so she can be seen, but not one with too many good players because I don't want her to be outshined by someone else, because then I'll have to find another team"- You may not believe it, but I've heard it and seen it from parents and not just in one sport, but definitely in soccer. What do all of these reason have in common - ADULTS Why do we now have a system that allows high school graduates to go straight to the pro's in baseball? Why do we allow universities to waste good tuition money to land a basketball player who will only go there 2 years and then off to the NBA or a football player who will play 3 years and then off to the NFL? ................but I guess that's the world we live in now, and its probably only going to get worse or I guess better for those of you who support it.
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nola
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Post by nola on Feb 19, 2011 10:55:01 GMT -6
Completely disagree. I have no idea what type of people you have been around that makes you have such a negative outlook on year round soccer. You have to accept the fact that MANY kids actually do not like playing several sports. And I honestly know NO kids that play soccer at this age and level because of a parent. The girls on my daughters team are in love with soccer. Even when they dont have team practices they get together and play indoor and coach camps and just love being involved in the sport. And no one said they put their kids in sports just to stay out of trouble. You seem to twist what everyone says into a negative way that works for you. The fact is there are lots of kids interested in year round soccer but if it's not for you, fine, just don't put down the players and parents that love it. Btw, lots of players still letter in several sports. At least at my daughters school.
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Post by oldhattrick3 on Feb 19, 2011 15:42:30 GMT -6
Completely disagree. I have no idea what type of people you have been around that makes you have such a negative outlook on year round soccer. You have to accept the fact that MANY kids actually do not like playing several sports.[/auote] nola, read a little better this is a soccer forum, I am stating my opinion on all year round sports and the differences from "then and now". Hell, I've been there done that with year round soccer and my kids. I'm sure to some degree I was one of those "Adults". I know some kids tend to like only one sport and that is fine, I'm addressing some of the tones of the statements in this thread that to me say "you need to dedicate year round to be a quality player" and basically focus on that one sport. And I honestly know NO kids that play soccer at this age and level because of a parent. Nola, please point out to me where I said this. Never said it, never applied it. Maybe you interpert the statement "parents living vicarously through their kids" as saying that, but that is not what that statement says at all - look it up. And no one said they put their kids in sports just to stay out of trouble. Nola, please read again, the point I was making on this subject was addressing a comment that was made to me. I'm not saying that is the case, I'm addressing a statement that was directed to me on a comment I made that had nothing to do with that issue. You seem to twist what everyone says into a negative way that works for you. That's your opinion and your entitled to it. But just remember I did and lived in those shoes I am talking about - a coach, a parent at the levels I am talking about for several years, and maybe I'm old and salty now, but I'm just giving feedback from what I saw/see. However, I accept your view of my opinions and feelings. The fact is there are lots of kids interested in year round soccer but if it's not for you, fine, just don't put down the players and parents that love it. Well nola, as I said I had a child who was interested and was quite good and if you read closely I'm not putting down all parents, but the statements I made in my posting are not just heresay or subjective, there are actual things I witnessed as a coach. Again, its not all parents/adults associated, but there are many and they have changed the complexion of sports for kids over the years, that's just a fact. The topic is Year round vs. seasonal, well I have pointed out facts that has taken sports from seasonal (like when I grew up) to year round (which is now). Btw, lots of players still letter in several sports. At least at my daughters school. Never said that it doesn't happen, but the numbers have gone down from when I was in school to now, due to the changes and pressure for year round vs. seasonal. Despite what we may want to believe kids did not create year round, adults did. Nola, I understand your defensive stand agains the post I have, and I respect your opinion, but my post is nothng but actual things that I have witnessed which I FEEL has impacted sports over the year. I don't think that you can argue that the points I made have actually happened from time to time out there and in all sports, not just soccer. And again, as I said when it comes to soccer or baseball, hell I was one of those parents shelling out the dollars to play travel and year round.
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