Schools who dominate

[soccerinfo]

I am bored at work and was having a conversation with an older co-worker about the state soccer games this coming weekend. I mentioned how Sacred Heart was playing in their 9th consecutive title game. His comment was "oh, the John Curtis of girls soccer." Then we looked at all the divisions and every school playing for a title is a private school and all but one is a Catholic school. I am not accusing any of the schools of recruiting. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments?

[miraddydad]

We are a much smaller area in NW La than the NOLA area. I can say that in the case of soccer, it's not going on up here. Soccer is not the money maker football is. I doubt there's just a whole lot of it going on. Much of it is coincidence. The other factor is money. Many soccer families have it and as a result send their kids to private schools. Or, if yalls school system is anything like Caddo's, you pretty much have to put your kid in private school.

[hannahspawpaw]

..... i personally don't know about "recruiting" per se, but obviously, parochial schools aren't limited by the geo boundaries that most public schools are bound by... which vastly limits louisiana public schools in soccer vis a vis parochial. (my perspective is from the caddo/bossier/desoto/webster region....)

[hannahspawpaw]

..... i personally don't know about "recruiting" per se, but obviously, parochial schools aren't limited by the geo boundaries that most public schools are bound by... which vastly limits louisiana public schools in soccer vis a vis parochial. (my perspective is from the caddo/bossier/desoto/webster region....)

[kevin]

Feb 20, 2012 15:03:43 GMT -6 miraddydad said:

The other factor is money. Many soccer families have it and as a result send their kids to private schools. Or, if yalls school system is anything like Caddo's, you pretty much have to put your kid in private school.

I think this is a large part of it, especially on the girls' side. I can't vouch for other parts of the state, but on the south shore of the New Orleans metro area if you come from a family with any money whatsoever you're going to private school (or possibly Ben Franklin). And soccer in Louisiana is mostly a upper-middle to upper-class sport. (Possibly this is changing somewhat with the post-Katrina Hispanic influx, but I don't think that applies as much on the girls' side.) Almost all of the good players have spent years paying to play club soccer.

And once it's decided that a kid who plays soccer seriously is going to a private school, it only makes sense that parents are going to look for schools with a competitive team. Just as with a Curtis or Evangel in football, the rich tend to get richer.

Also, there just aren't enough soccer players in the state to make the fields as deep and competitive as they are in football or basketball. If you had ten times the number of kids playing soccer, you'd see much more parity.

[mydove4]

hannahspawpaw- I personally think you hit the nail on the head, but then, the schools on the North Shore, with the exception of Lakeshore and Northshore, for the time being, see an equal number of players from the club.

[ijsouth]

I think all of the above points are valid - bottom line is, success seems to follow affluence, whether the school is private or public. Look at the top eight, in every division - inevitably, the schools are in affluent areas, or in the case of New Orleans, they are the private schools that people with means send their children to. Because youth soccer in this country is "pay to play", the schools in areas with good club teams will always stand out. It will remain this way until soccer becomes part of the culture. When will that happen? I don't know, but the sign that it has happened is when you see kids, of all income levels, playing the game in the streets. There are a number of fine athletes, in inner-city schools and out in the country, that play football and basketball now; when more of them start playing soccer, things will shift.

[div1coach222]

it is not recruiting because if I am mistaken that is illegal. In all sports, boys and girls there are cases where concessions are made to help a athlete out (not all just a few) with the financial cost if they would like to attend. More prevelant on south shore of Metro New Orleans area this is practiced. This has been going on for years. On the North Shore with girls junior and high school level soccer because of the sound public school system to the best of my knowledge this is not happening. I have family and friends who attend both private and publuic schools who play sports (both boys and girls) and I have not met one saying their child is attending private because of the athletic program. These individuals have other more important reasons for choosing that institutuion..Just for the record my children attend public schools...

[hannahspawpaw]

.... regarding the "$" issue(s), many public schools can't afford a soccer coach, decent practice facilities, or even a yellow bus to get it's team to the second round playoff game 350 miles away. i think that the culture and rules for a particular sport's program in parochialworld is at the school level, while, in the public school system they are controlled by the system's monolithic bureaucracy...and football coaching staff. or maybe that's just at my granddaughter's school, eh!?

[bhssoccercoach]

Think about the money part this way. Would you want your child who has played club soccer (which is an expensive endeavor) go to a public school where the (insert other sport here) coach doubles as the soccer coach or would you rather them go to the local public school where they pay for the services of one of the local club coaches? That's pretty much how things in NWLA go. Stronger boys programs (Caddo Mag., Byrd (magnet), Loyola, Shreve, Parkway) tend to have more club players than any of the other soccer schools. Same on the girls side where Byrd, Magnet, Loyola, Calvary tend to dominate. And there's also the fact that there are far fewer club players to go around up here. When they get spread out among the schools, it's harder to compete with those schools that have an entire lineup of club players. We just have to go out and work harder just to win a playoff game. If you look back at the teams that made the semis on both sides it was like 9/12 private (mostly catholic) schools on the girls side and 10/12 on the boys side. It's just the way it is.

[Patriot fan]

it is naive to think that conversations do not take place between school reps or parents regarding entrance or playing time at private schools...it is also naive to state that certain athletes at certain schools do not get special treatment by clubs if they play at private schools..

[Steven Gerrard]

Feb 21, 2012 16:15:24 GMT -6 mydove4 said:

truefan, your point is groundless! For one, public schools are restricted by school districts and students are bound to attend the school where they reside. Secondly, do you think for one minute because a coach asks a certain player to attend his/her school is going to be enough for parents to shell out between $7500-$10,000 worth of tuition a year? I don't think so. I know the private schools on the Northshore do not offer scholarships to attend. So, what benefits do you think they are offering? Please explain.

And, your post about kids going to certain schools will get more playing time at the club level? Really, what club does you kid play for? Mine played for MSC, and all of our girls attended MHS, FHS, SSA, and Northshore. And guess what, they all played an equal amount of time, every game. It had nothing to do with what schools they attended.

Man, have I got a bridge in Brooklyn that I want to sell to you.

[oldhattrick3]

Feb 21, 2012 19:18:57 GMT -6 aliceshoe1 said:

I have PERSONALLY seen recruiting on behalf of a private school twice in my life. Once, my own child was recruited by parents "representing" a private school. Private school could not offer the same quality education as the public GT program (how dare I say that) so was a no brainer.

But most disturbing I witnessed staff from a private school make an offer to parent for their child to attend the private school. I, being of meek and humble personality, asked the staff person straight up.."Hey, I thought you did not offer scholarships."

I was quickly told it was a "grant" to a "needy family", which made it legit. I guess the school record at the event the child had just set never figured in the equation as I pointed out at the moment. I've never been able to wrap my mind around that "needy family" excuse...uh, public education was free and was a decent school.

Kid took the free ride, but the child did not like the sport they were recruited in and the two parted ways after the freshman year was over. Seemed this "grant" limited the child to participate in the sport she excelled in, not the one she loved.

Yes, "grants" are offered by private schools all the time to "needy STUDentS", sadly sometimes claiming or hiding behind God's name as justification.

Dead on Aliceshoe, dead on:

Fact: Private schools do recruit Most private schools have club coaches and they recruit (talk and persuade) parents about attending their school

Fact: Private schools do NOT give scholarships

Fact: Private schools do give "special assistance grants" to STUDents whose parents can't quite afford it

Fact: This occurs in several high school sports and soccer is definitely one.

Fact: Seen it done on several occasions (inside and out), and there is no LHSAA rule this currently violates. One example, girl travelled over 50 minutes one way for school.

Fact: Private schools who do this have an advantage.

[Patriot fan]

again your either naive or refuse to see what many others see..it is not about axes, it's about what you fail to see or accept as others

[div1coach222]

aliceshoes1- This type of offers (grants not scholarships) is a common practice in all sports on the southshore of New orleans and Jefferson Parish. We must all remember that it is not recruiting...Ha HA.. If it looks like a pig, walks like a pig and smells like a pig no matter how you dress it up it is a PIG! On the North Shore District 6 because of the quality of the public school system when it comes to girls soccer (we will not touch boys football that is another matter) I have not personally heard of this practice going on. With such a small community in the Mandeville area everyone knows everyone (in the soccer world) this would have been spoken about amongst the people. If there is a decline in the public school education system in my opinion this type of action could take place. Proof is in the pudding, as you can see Font., Mandeville, and Lakeshore still very competitve. As for as Font. goes Lakeshore district lines is what has hurt their depth and team not any such grants ( which I do not feel is taking place) at SSA. As far as what the future holds only time will tell....

[hannahspawpaw]

p.s. @"soccerinfo".... you started a very revealing discussion here. appreciated. but btw, if you are bored at work...... GET BACK TOWORK!!!

[soccerinfo]

I am busy at work today, but it has been nice seeing at least one thread with some discussion.

I was trying to be nice, but yes I do think recruiting goes on. I have not noticed anything in soccer, but a friend's daughter moved to schools for volleyball.

I also think that when a parent chooses a school for their child or children, athletics can be one item to consider. When we had to make the school decision for our son, a school that did not have a well rounded strong athletic program was dropped from our consideration early. Our daughter just followed his footsteps.

When you look at these schools and how they have dominated at soccer, maybe the strength of their overall athletic program is a key factor. Then sisters following sisters in either the same or a different sport just keeps the ball rolling.

Keep up the discussion, I will have a break from my project in a few hours.

[methuselah]

Here's my take on it. (I'm coming from the perspective of the boys' side and fairly new compared to some long time posters).

It is undeniable that the private schools end up doing very well in the playoffs, often garnering winner and runner up in each division. But I look at it that they've been keeping the sport going for many years while we in the public school sector are just now (hopefully) starting to pull our weight. I think there are enough good athletes in the public schools to compete with the top private schools. The trick is to get them interested and excited in soccer and to get them the training to excel at it.

If even a percentage of the best athletes at many of the public schools were to buy into soccer (hopefully starting young at a good healthy community rec program) then I think you would see a whole lot different looking brackets.

Whether that will ever happen, I don't know. I know the kids themselves tend to love playing the game. It's definitely a "player's game". But the acclaim from peers, parents, other students, etc. is still weighted in favor of football, baseball and basketball at the public schools (and those sports deserve their support - they've earned it over decades).

And sure, there will be hurdles to overcome - administrations and athletic departments to win over, funds to raise, facilities and field space to beg, borrow or steal from other programs. But it can be done with a little work and determination. Forge positive relationships with the administration, the athletic department and the other sports programs. Run concessions. Get sponsors/donations. Get publicity (I've found that, by a happy coincidence, a lot of small town papers tend to be looking for sports stories just during the time that the soccer season is occurring. And of course, the whole social media thing. Other students can see how much fun the soccer kids are having just by their statuses and photos on Facebook, etc).

How's the old line from Shakespeare go? "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars but in ourselves".

[barnacle13]

Very valid points methuselah. Gaining the interest of the student body is the best way to get this groundswell going. If you put butts in the bleachers, more athletes will want to play. Best way to get that started is word of mouth from the players themselves, announcements, school marquee, etc. I don't think our local papers cover the sport very well in BR. That may be the fault of the coaches/admins for not calling in scores, but I'm sure most coaches would love a little help on the PR scene anyway. Same goes for fundraising. Ultimately this falls to the coach and team, but if parents get involved in the program it can make things a little easier (of course us parents also tend to make things much more difficult as well, so who knows).

An easy solution is splitting the playoffs as suggested earlier. But does that really address the problem? Probably only in part. You still have to build the program in order to be successful. Taking the programs who have already done that out of he equation doesn't necessarily fix things.

Look at LSU Baseball as a good example of building a program. Until the late 80's not many cared what was going on in or even where the Box was located. It took a decade or more of building on past success to get the program where it is today (one of the best in the nation). It didn't happen overnight and it didn't happen by making Texas, Miami, and Arizona State play in a different College World Series. But, it was important to Skip Bertman and he made it relevant to south Louisiana.

It'll take that same effort on a much smaller scale and in a lot more places to change the face of soccer in Louisiana. In some cases we're on our way, while others are taking those first baby steps. It won't happen over night and will take perseverence by many, many individuals.

[hannahspawpaw]

methuselah: ..."to be or not to be, that is the question!" your comments, perspective and suggestions are well-taken. in bossier parish, the hurdle-overcoming is ongoing just like you describe. it's just sad that the current unlevelness of the pitch (public v parochial) has to be levelled in this way. uniformity of rules/application would negate the need for this entire thread..... meanwhile, let's just get out on the field and play.