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Post by bucsfan1217 on Jan 4, 2008 3:44:52 GMT -6
Parkway defeated Haughton last night 5-1, and while the outcome of the game probably suprises no one, what I witnessed at the game in the way of sportsmanship disgusted me. Let me first say, while I am a Haughton dad, I am a Parkway alum. I played football and wrestled for PHS. NEVER would a coach of mine allowed the profanity and disrespect I heard from the PHS players last night. Just in the first half, I heard 2 players call a Haughton player the B word along the sidelines during play, I witnessed multiple intentional punches to the back and elbows (which my wife and I heard 1 player bragging about on the way to the car) and 1 player yelling at the Haughton coach calling him an idiot. It made me ashamed to be a PHS alum.
When did this behavior become acceptable?? Is this commonplace in high school soccer? The sad part is it starts with the coaches and parents. I would like to hear from other areas and teams and see if I am the only one who finds this unacceptable? What does everyone think?
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Post by pompey on Jan 4, 2008 8:06:03 GMT -6
As a coach - if any of my players called another coach an idiot, they are coming off the field and likely have a 5 game suspension, letter of appology to that coach, and to their teammates.
As is often the case, NOT ALWAYS, but often, the players are a reflection of the coach.
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Post by soccergods on Jan 4, 2008 8:33:05 GMT -6
Parkway defeated Haughton last night 5-1, and while the outcome of the game probably suprises no one, what I witnessed at the game in the way of sportsmanship disgusted me. Let me first say, while I am a Haughton dad, I am a Parkway alum. I played football and wrestled for PHS. NEVER would a coach of mine allowed the profanity and disrespect I heard from the PHS players last night. Just in the first half, I heard 2 players call a Haughton player the B word along the sidelines during play, I witnessed multiple intentional punches to the back and elbows (which my wife and I heard 1 player bragging about on the way to the car) and 1 player yelling at the Haughton coach calling him an idiot. It made me ashamed to be a PHS alum. When did this behavior become acceptable?? Is this commonplace in high school soccer? The sad part is it starts with the coaches and parents. I would like to hear from other areas and teams and see if I am the only one who finds this unacceptable? What does everyone think? I am the mother of 2 children who play high school soccer, one a boy and one a girl. I have found the most foul mouths and the worst behavior in the girls games. I also find that the refs don't call it in the girls games. There is much more control over the game with the boys. My daughter and her teammates also commented on the dirty mouths of the Parkway girls and the dirty play. Both of my children play select as well and have been involved with ODP. I have been appalled at the thuggery that is evident in girls high school soccer, especially it seems in N.LA.
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Post by phsmom on Jan 4, 2008 8:56:27 GMT -6
Yes, lets talk sportsmanship! I too was at that game last night and it was truly an ugly game. The referee did little to stem the flying elbows and blatant pushes FROM BOTH SIDES. I did not hear any profanity, but wasn't sitting by the sidelines, but I can assure you that if a player was disrespectful of the Haughton Coach, Tere' Alexander would bench that player if she were aware of the insult. What amazes me though, is from the Haughton parent section where you hear yells of "shove her out of your way" "just knock her down and take the ball" "give her an elbow" It seems to come from just a couple of people, but still, it makes the atmosphere poisonous.
So, yes, the referee's need to better control the game, but we as parents need to teach our children sportsmanship by our actions as well.
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Post by unmarked on Jan 4, 2008 9:04:09 GMT -6
When did this behavior become acceptable?? Is this commonplace in high school soccer? The sad part is it starts with the coaches and parents. I would like to hear from other areas and teams and see if I am the only one who finds this unacceptable? What does everyone think? Of course this sort of behavior is unacceptable and this is most certainly not common place in high school soccer. That being said it does happen as it does in other sports but I find it is not as common. The sad thing is that for those that attend these games, who are fairly new to the game, and witness such behavior one could possibly leave with such a perception especially if it goes unpunished by the officials. If the conduct was as bad as what has been published in this forum the school's administrator definitely needs to hear about it and he/she should have a "sit down" with the coach to find out what is going on... I've been around the game a long time as a player, fan, referee, and coach and can say that these things do happen but they are isolated. The common denominator in most of these cases was a coach that was/is tolerant of this behavior and/or parents that exhibit poor behavior in the stands. I would ask that we do not turn this into something it isn't... It is not fair to judge an entire sport or league according to the actions of a few on a given night. The school and coach need to deal with this quickly and firmly. I would definitely go as far to say that the parents should be a part of this process.
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Post by soccerrose on Jan 4, 2008 11:27:17 GMT -6
I think one of the problem is that most high school coaches are not school administrators and let high school girls do what ever thay want to their should be a school administrator at every game to take care of this
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Post by soccerrouge on Jan 4, 2008 12:01:12 GMT -6
.............. but we as parents need to teach our children sportsmanship by our actions as well. This sentence ending statement speaks volumes for me. Having played sports at various levels, just like everything else in the world has changed, so has this. We place fault on the coach, and legitimately so to some extent, the coaches carry a certain amount of responsibility as explained by pompey, however, the key here is the difference on the home front. We have grown (or declined I should say) from a world where this kind of behavior was 1 in about every 3 to 5 programs, to now where it is from 5 - 10 of these behaviors in every team. When I was playing the support I got from my parents was plain and simple: 1) Feel honored that you are capable and allowed to participate in this activity. This privilege is earned, remember that. and 2) The minute you do something foolish or stupid (like cussing and playing dirty on the field) this privilege will be taken away from you - IMMEDIATELY! - Not by the coach or the school or the program - but by my parents. I have noticed a trend of parent's behavior that has fed the fire of what we are seeing more and more of on the field. Supportive parent's behavior of a child's disrespect to teammates, oppt players, their coaches, other team's coaches, fans, refs, etc. They are some parents who are quick to support their kids actions, no matter how bad. They'll use the excuse of another player's behavior or parent or coach or ref. Whatever happen to "2 wrongs don't make a right" Why did this change this way? Why is it continuing? If I were to do something even remotely close to this when I was growing up playing, the ref and/or coach would have had to beat my dad to me on the field to pull me off - I'm not joking, this happened to me at a very young age, and taught me a very valuable lesson, which stuck with me through the rest of my sporting life (which, by the way Dad (even though you don't read this forum - THANK YOU - AGAIN! I wish there were more like you out here). I'd be willing to bet that several coaches out there can relate to the fact of applying discipline for action and being confronted by an upset mom or dad, filled immediately with examples of what the other kids or coaches did to cause that to happen. Hey, don't get me wrong, sometimes there are situations where the parents are right to confront the coach on an issue of unfair treatment, but I would be willing to bet that 98%+ cases, the discipline was right, yet the support is still there beating on the coaches. I wish I had a miracle solution to this, but I don't. I wish it would correct itself, but it won't. I definitely understand the frustration from parents, fans, opposing coaches and players, and refs, but lets remember it takes more than just these high school coaches to ever turn this around.
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Post by bucsfan1217 on Jan 4, 2008 12:14:46 GMT -6
phsmom, First, I don't know Coach Alexander, but from what I have seen she appears to be an excellent coach. I tend to think she is unaware of the comments made as well. Obviously the profanity probably wasn't heard from across the field. I know in Coach Love's case if he so much as hears the word "crap" out of a girls mouth, she knows she will be running extra at practice.
Secondly, I also agree there are "fanatic" fans on BOTH sides. Unfortunartely, neither Coach Love nor Coach Alexander can control their behavior. As a fellow parent, I do not condone that behavior either. I did not notice the mentioned behavior the first 2 times we played each other with the exception of 2 dads in the stands mocking one of our girls when she got injured (hope she didn't break a nail, etc etc.). I by no means intend to insinuate Parkway is alone in this behavior, this game just happened to be the worst of it I've seen so far and it forced me to ask the question is this the norm?
You are absolutely correct that we need to teach our children sportsmanship by our actions.
As unmarked states in his post, it is unfair to judge the whole group by the actions of a few. It is not my intention to judge an entire team by the actions of a few girls as I hope you will not judge all the parents by the actions of a couple.
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Post by someonenearla on Jan 4, 2008 12:34:46 GMT -6
I have noticed that many coaches dont discipline their players enough. If their is no discipline from the coach then players get the feeling that they can do whatever they want. If a player does something wrong, the coach basically just slaps he/she on the wrist. Basically the coaches is saying that i didnt like what you did but i'm also not punishing you for it. It is also a shame that refs dont hear what players are saying to each other. In some cases it is not the refs fault b/c he is running around the field and cant keep tabs on everyone. Honestly I feel that if they would just put 2 center refs instead of one center ref and 2 linesmen, then the refs could possibly pick up this problem.
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Post by sokerfan on Jan 4, 2008 12:40:15 GMT -6
soccerrouge, you are absolute;y right about it beginning with the parents. Growing up where the principle, then mom, then dad, wipped you when you miss behaved, I really believe as parents we have taken steps backward. If parents would begin parenting instead of befriending their kids things would get back on track. The kids have enough friends. So what if their feelings get hurt, punish them and show them bad behavior won't be tolerated.
I too have seen an increase of trash talking during games. A couple weekends ago at the Lafayette High tournament there were players talking back to the referees. (In the boys games) I realize that refs don't want to mess up the flow of the game, but they SHOULD NOT tolerate a CHILD backtalking an ADULT. If the refs would tell the coaches that absolutely NO backtalking allowed that there would be yellow cards issued, it would stop or they would be playing 8 vs 8. Referees DON"T have to explain a call to a player on the field, they should give some explination to a coach if asked though. I think only then will we get to see soccer played with skill and sportsmanship. If not, we'll eventually see riots like in other parts of the world.
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Post by uncsoccer on Jan 4, 2008 14:41:05 GMT -6
If my child EVER was disrespectful or unsportsmanlike on the field she knows good and well that I would be the first on the field to drag her off the field and that would only be the beginning of the punishment. Sports should be played with passion and excitement. I have no problem with playing physical as long as it is with in the laws of the game. Dirty play is not called for and should be punished. Cussing should be grounds for a hard red, and yelling at any adult no matter what the adult said first should not occur. If an adult is acting like a child they should be treated like a child and sent off to hide their face in a corner. WE as parents are responsible for the actions of our children. What they learn at home is how the will act. The apple never falls far from the tree!
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Post by pompey on Jan 4, 2008 22:41:00 GMT -6
Good stuff UNC, good stuff everyone else.
I am 36 now, not too old, but not fresh faced in high school. I rememeber writing in chalk on a middle school wall some scribe about my beloved Portsmouth soccer team and was right off to the headmasters office. Got the Dunlop Green Flash size 13, 6 times. Went home tail firmly between the legs and my Dad read the note and proceeded to add another 6. Not advocating whipping kids (this was my only one ever, as a sidenote) as that is another thread and off topic, but main factor here was my Dad was not in the slightest bit interested in my side of the story..........authority figure had acted, that was that, there was no grey area.
Is this the case with all parents today? kinda thinking not.
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Post by ShreveDad on Jan 5, 2008 9:34:50 GMT -6
I was the parents side AR for this match the other night. Fist off let me say how much I respect the coaches for these teams. Coach Love for Haughton and his assistant are really trying to build a program at Haughton with very little support from their school. I have had the chance to talk with him several times during the past couple of years and I am impressed with what he is trying to do at his school. There is no coach I respect more in this area than Tere Alexander. Her and her family have built a great program at Parkway. They have the largest girls soccer program in the area. They are to be commended for what they have done at Parkway.
Between my girls playing Parkway for the last 6 years and Parkway matches that I have worked as a referee, I have seen more Parkway matches than I can count. I have NEVER seen then show disrespect for another coach in the manner you present. Was there a lot of physicall play, yes on both sides. Was there jawing of players to each other, yes on both sides. I can assure you none of the referees heard the players call each other the B work or they would have been cautioned. Did any Parkway player yell and call the Haughton coach an idiot. NO. Did they say it, maybe but again no referee heard that.
What I witnesses that night was a physical match between two teams that are turning into rivals. There is no more physical team than Haughton. #37 on their team is most likely the most physical player in the area. I love to watch that girl play. Parkway is not a physical team by nature but I'm sure they decided to dish out some of their own the other night. Could the center have called a few more fouls? Yes. Did the match ever get out of hand? No He should have given the Parkway player a yellow when she kicked the ball away delaying a restart. He chose to talk to her and it didn't happen again.
I also had the pleasure to stand in freezing weather and listen to some parents (guess which team) riducule and criticize the referees. Before we condemm the behavior of others, lets be sure ours is beyond reproach.
During the time the parents were complaining the most, Haughton's #37 was down on my end for a corner kick and said "Geez, its just a game". WELL SAID!!!
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Post by tonygalinto on Jan 5, 2008 10:25:26 GMT -6
I was the parents side AR for this match the other night. Fist off let me say how much I respect the coaches for these teams. Coach Love for Haughton and his assistant are really trying to build a program at Haughton with very little support from their school. I have had the chance to talk with him several times during the past couple of years and I am impressed with what he is trying to do at his school. There is no coach I respect more in this area than Tere Alexander. Her and her family have built a great program at Parkway. They have the largest girls soccer program in the area. They are to be commended for what they have done at Parkway. Between my girls playing Parkway for the last 6 years and Parkway matches that I have worked as a referee, I have seen more Parkway matches than I can count. I have NEVER seen then show disrespect for another coach in the manner you present. Was there a lot of physicall play, yes on both sides. Was there jawing of players to each other, yes on both sides. I can assure you none of the referees heard the players call each other the B work or they would have been cautioned. Did any Parkway player yell and call the Haughton coach an idiot. NO. Did they say it, maybe but again no referee heard that. What I witnesses that night was a physical match between two teams that are turning into rivals. There is no more physical team than Haughton. #37 on their team is most likely the most physical player in the area. I love to watch that girl play. Parkway is not a physical team by nature but I'm sure they decided to dish out some of their own the other night. Could the center have called a few more fouls? Yes. Did the match ever get out of hand? No He should have given the Parkway player a yellow when she kicked the ball away delaying a restart. He chose to talk to her and it didn't happen again. I also had the pleasure to stand in freezing weather and listen to some parents (guess which team) riducule and criticize the referees. Before we condemm the behavior of others, lets be sure ours is beyond reproach. During the time the parents were complaining the most, Haughton's #37 was down on my end for a corner kick and said "Geez, its just a game". WELL SAID!!! First off let me say it was VERY unprofessional for an official on the game to come on this board, identify himself as such and then give his personal opinions concerning the game. Secondly this same official should read the High School rule book. He stated "I can assure you none of the referees heard the players call each other the B work or they would have been cautioned.". Why would this be a caution and not a straight red card? This individual also stated "Could the center have called a few more fouls? Yes. Did the match ever get out of hand? No He should have given the Parkway player a yellow when she kicked the ball away delaying a restart." It's very unethical for an official in a game to come onto this board and second guess what another official in the game should or shouldn't have done. He states "There is no more physical team than Haughton. #37 on their team is most likely the most physical player in the area. I love to watch that girl play." Not exactly comments you want to hear one of the officials on a game say on a public forum after what was apparently a very controversial game. Remember it's not what is reality but the perception of an official's conduct that most people believe. The official also appears to be taking sides concerning the behavior of one school's parents parents during the game. It the behavior was bad why didn't he call the center over and have them removed from the game? As a HS soccer official I find the conduct of the person posting on this board as an official of a controversial game unethical. I would hope the LHSAA director of HS Soccer officials make contact with the referee to confirm the poster was actually the official that worked the game and offer some advice to him. In my opinion this person should not be assigned to games of either of these schools for the rest of the season. By coming on here and posting his comments he leaves himself wide open to complaints of favoritism or bias against one team or the other.
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Post by SWLASocFan on Jan 5, 2008 20:52:46 GMT -6
Ever heard of "freedom of speech"?
I have reviewed the rules of this board, and I have reviewed the Code of Ethics for Referees - and really dont see anything that ShreveDad did or said wrong.
In case you are not aware of the Shreveport area soccer programs, they are all very close knit and like a huge family. Between the coaches, players, parents, and officials - they are a great group of people.
And not only I, but everyone that I know - respects the opinions and posts of ShreveDad.
Thanks ShreveDad! Keep them coming...
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Post by Punkaro on Jan 5, 2008 21:30:44 GMT -6
I think what ShreveDad was trying to say is that you shouldn't question the referees in a game. He said he had complete control of the game and that with the example of not having to caution one of the players but instead talking to her. And if you are worried about him being biased, he has reffed Shreve games and (sorry ShreveDad) I didn't agree with some of the calls he made and didn't feel at all like he gave one side an advantage over the other at all.
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Post by my2centsplus on Jan 5, 2008 21:45:16 GMT -6
Totally agree with you CajunTexan! ShreveDad keep posting!
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Post by ShreveDad on Jan 5, 2008 22:57:21 GMT -6
Thanks for the support guys. All I was doing was standing up for a coach wrongly accused of condoning unsportsmanlike and disrespectful behavior by their players. I don't know any coach that would put up with that. I'm not saying that parent didn't hear those comments. They must have been said close to the bleachers near the parents. I didn't hear them. The center didn't hear them. I'm also quite sure the Parkway coaches didn't hear them since they would have been 50 yards away. I feel comfortable in saying the Parkway coaches would have dealt with the situation had they heard the player make those comments.
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Post by tonygalinto on Jan 6, 2008 9:03:05 GMT -6
Thanks for the support guys. All I was doing was standing up for a coach wrongly accused of condoning unsportsmanlike and disrespectful behavior by their players. I don't know any coach that would put up with that. I'm not saying that parent didn't hear those comments. They must have been said close to the bleachers near the parents. I didn't hear them. The center didn't hear them. I'm also quite sure the Parkway coaches didn't hear them since they would have been 50 yards away. I feel comfortable in saying the Parkway coaches would have dealt with the situation had they heard the player make those comments. Unfortunately in your post you went muh further than merely taking up for both coaches. I will repaet once again my feelings on this matter. As a HS soccer official I find the conduct of the person posting on this board as an official of a controversial game unethical. I would hope the LHSAA director of HS Soccer officials make contact with the referee to confirm the poster was actually the official that worked the game and offer some advice to him. In my opinion this person should not be assigned to games of either of these schools for the rest of the season. By coming on here and posting his comments he leaves himself wide open to complaints of favoritism or bias against one team or the other.
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Post by Wofford Dad f/k/a SJA Dad on Jan 6, 2008 11:09:39 GMT -6
I must say this has been one of the more interestings threads I've read in a long time. It started with complaints and concerns about offensive statements made during play, morphed into a discussion about the philosophy of child-rearing into today's culture, took a sharp right turn when one of the officials who worked the game refuted the original allegations, and then evolved into an ethical debate over whether that official crossed the line by posting.
I have no skin in this paricular game, so I offer this objective view.
Observation No. 1 -- I like the fact that this thread contains issues that both directly and indirectly impact the game of soccer. I think it important to encourage discussion of issues that occasionally go outside the white lines of the pitch. It is that kind of free speech that keeps this board from stagnating.
Now as much as we hate to admit it, free speech has its limits if it crosses the line into slander or encouragement of riotious acts.
Observation No. 2 -- Argument and defense of opposing viewpoints on any topic should always be encouraged.
Observation No. 3 -- ShreveDad's entry into the discussion creates some interesting sub-issues. Normally, I think that all leagues of all sports discourage officials from publicly discussing anything that took place within the context of the game that was played. The perception is that officials should remain "above the fray," objective, and removed from public discourse.
But in a situation where public discussion might be wavering on UNTRUTH, should the official be encouraged to step forth and correct the public perception? I do not know the answer to that question.
But no one should be muzzled on this topic -- at least not after the cat is out of the bag. As for the future, officials' entry into the public forum remains a dicey issue.
Keep talking.
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