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Post by uhscubs1 on Jan 31, 2019 11:21:49 GMT -6
The whole stop at 2:00 thing is because clock operators aren't trained to know when to start and stop the clock. Not that it's difficult or anything but they usually aren't paying much attention and let the clock run. So if it does run and doesn't stop for goals, cards, injuries, etc and it's a 1 goal game you always have that one guy screaming down time is up when we have 2 minutes remaining. And shame on the refs if they aren't giving the full amount of time in a close game. It should not matter where the time is kept, watch or scoreboard, the integrity of the game shouldn't be compromised. It's a lot easier sell when the time is visible on the scoreboard than to have a super secret watch. A lot of times it is one guy announcing and running the clock. I always try to announce at the beginning of games that the clock on the scoreboard is for reference only and the official time is kept by the Ref on the field.
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Post by Bish on Jan 31, 2019 11:57:31 GMT -6
No...just no. As we all know, things happen during stoppage time, such as goals / celebrations, injuries, time wasting, etc, that allow the referee at his discretion to add even more time. There's a reason FIFA does it this way.
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Post by smee on Jan 31, 2019 13:12:49 GMT -6
Will score board be stopped at 2 mins and ref on field keeps after for stopage time, or just straight 40 like college?? Seen both this season? Was told that next year that's how it will be straight 40 unless refs signals for stoppage to booth ? I am a huge proponent of a visible clock and having the schools provide a trained operator. Then there is no question that when the horn sounds, time has expired. Imagine - no more whining about blowing the ball dead on a breakaway or at a free kick when the time is kept on your wrist and expires. Or even if a shot beats the keeper then the horn sounds before it crosses the goal line. It is done this way in many places - Pennsylvania being one, p_malinich can testify. Would make for a great off-season discussion. I am never sure how Rule 3 section 6 plays in here: "When a team repeatedly substitutes to consume time, a referee shall order the timer to stop the time clock during such substitutions and shall notify the coach of the offending team". Surely the coach of the other team should be notified also, or do we just continue to bait him/her and then caution/send off when they justifiably explode? Are we allowed to add some time back onto the clock? How do we signal to someone in the press box how much time should be added back on? If "team A" has been wasting the time, but is losing at the end of regulation time, should we reward them by giving them the time back, thereby punishing "team B"? Are we going to force all schools to have VAR installed for "buzzer beater" shots? If I am right, in basketball, so long as the ball is released before the buzzer sounds, the points are good; in throwball, it is the time when the ball is snapped. What would the rule be for soccer? This is precisely why soccer does not and should not follow this ridiculous idea.
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Post by Skippers on Jan 31, 2019 14:22:46 GMT -6
I am a huge proponent of a visible clock and having the schools provide a trained operator. Then there is no question that when the horn sounds, time has expired. Imagine - no more whining about blowing the ball dead on a breakaway or at a free kick when the time is kept on your wrist and expires. Or even if a shot beats the keeper then the horn sounds before it crosses the goal line. It is done this way in many places - Pennsylvania being one, p_malinich can testify. Would make for a great off-season discussion. I am never sure how Rule 3 section 6 plays in here: "When a team repeatedly substitutes to consume time, a referee shall order the timer to stop the time clock during such substitutions and shall notify the coach of the offending team". Surely the coach of the other team should be notified also, or do we just continue to bait him/her and then caution/send off when they justifiably explode? Are we allowed to add some time back onto the clock? How do we signal to someone in the press box how much time should be added back on? If "team A" has been wasting the time, but is losing at the end of regulation time, should we reward them by giving them the time back, thereby punishing "team B"? Are we going to force all schools to have VAR installed for "buzzer beater" shots? If I am right, in basketball, so long as the ball is released before the buzzer sounds, the points are good; in throwball, it is the time when the ball is snapped. What would the rule be for soccer? This is precisely why soccer does not and should not follow this ridiculous idea. Exactly. The ref is the true time keeper.
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Post by time2retire on Jan 31, 2019 15:26:29 GMT -6
Stopping the clock for excessive subs solves that problem, no card required. Referee can adjust the clock as necessary as well.
Some things make sense some don't. I don't get to choose which I enforce and which I don't. When I accept an assignment I agree to enforce the rules of competition. Even the dumb ones.
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Post by Bish on Jan 31, 2019 15:59:30 GMT -6
The problem with high school is you have unlimited subs, so now you leave something like "excessive subbing" up to a referee's judgment.
I think the rule is dumb. If you can sub as much as you want during regular time without the clock stopping, you should be able to in stoppage time...so long as the players subbing in/out aren't intentionally slow-walking or obviously trying to waste more time.
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Post by Rabid Monkey on Jan 31, 2019 16:01:37 GMT -6
Stopping the clock for excessive subs solves that problem, no card required. Referee can adjust the clock as necessary as well. Some things make sense some don't. I don't get to choose which I enforce and which I don't. When I accept an assignment I agree to enforce the rules of competition. Even the dumb ones. What should be considered as excessive subs? Always having a sub waiting to go in near the end of the game? Unless you limit the number of subs that can occur, I am not sure how you take the subjectivity out of that one. Might be slippery slope
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Post by firebruin on Jan 31, 2019 21:50:43 GMT -6
There is a particular U12 team that does this in club. They subbed every 1-2 minutes with 1 player each. I asked the ref to warn the other coach, and he did.
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Post by time2retire on Jan 31, 2019 22:00:48 GMT -6
Fingerspitzengefuhl
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Post by OuachitaCoach on Feb 1, 2019 7:17:36 GMT -6
Do playoff games that get stopped by weather during the game follow the same protocol as the regular season? I looked through the LHSAA handbook and didn't see a distinction for that exact situation during the playoffs. It does say that if a playoff game is postponed due to weather then it shall be rescheduled for the next day. But that doesn't include postponement during the game.
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Post by Bish on Feb 1, 2019 8:44:33 GMT -6
The rules state that in the case of postponing, the game will be continued at a later date if the game was tied and in the first half. If a game is tied in the second half with less than 10 minutes left, each coach picks 1 player and there will be a best 3 out of 5 paper, rock, scissors competition in which the winner moves on to the next round. Obviously, no "dynamites" or other made up actions are allowed.
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Post by OuachitaCoach on Feb 1, 2019 8:49:00 GMT -6
The rules state that in the case of postponing, the game will be continued at a later date if the game was tied and in the first half. If a game is tied in the second half with less than 10 minutes left, each coach picks 1 player and there will be a best 3 out of 5 paper, rock, scissors competition in which the winner moves on to the next round. Obviously, no "dynamites" or other made up actions are allowed. That's good. I've got a couple kids that are great cheats at P-R-S. I don't know how they do it.
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Post by Bish on Feb 1, 2019 9:21:20 GMT -6
Cheating is not tolerated and will be grounds for immediate disqualification.
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Post by OuachitaCoach on Feb 1, 2019 9:33:28 GMT -6
Cheating is not tolerated and will be grounds for immediate disqualification. Only if they're caught!
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Post by straightdummin on Feb 1, 2019 9:57:11 GMT -6
There is a particular U12 team that does this in club. They subbed every 1-2 minutes with 1 player each. I asked the ref to warn the other coach, and he did. isn't that part of game management. there are plenty of professional teams that hold there subs for the last few minutes of the game.
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Post by kevin on Feb 1, 2019 10:08:01 GMT -6
There is a particular U12 team that does this in club. They subbed every 1-2 minutes with 1 player each. I asked the ref to warn the other coach, and he did. isn't that part of game management. there are plenty of professional teams that hold there subs for the last few minutes of the game. The difference is that a professional team typically gets three subs. Yes, teams may use them to waste time, but they don't have unlimited opportunities to do so.
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Post by lsuatty on Feb 1, 2019 10:16:13 GMT -6
Will score board be stopped at 2 mins and ref on field keeps after for stopage time, or just straight 40 like college?? Seen both this season? Was told that next year that's how it will be straight 40 unless refs signals for stoppage to booth ? I am a huge proponent of a visible clock and having the schools provide a trained operator. Then there is no question that when the horn sounds, time has expired. Imagine - no more whining about blowing the ball dead on a breakaway or at a free kick when the time is kept on your wrist and expires. Or even if a shot beats the keeper then the horn sounds before it crosses the goal line. It is done this way in many places - Pennsylvania being one, p_malinich can testify. Would make for a great off-season discussion. I operated the clock for the last EDW-VCHS game and we did live time. It worked well.
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Post by time2retire on Feb 1, 2019 10:36:50 GMT -6
Also, in IFAB/FIFA/club you have a full minute to work with. When the fourth official holds that big green 2 on the board it signifies at least 2:00 but up to 2:59 of additional time. In NFHS/NCAA, you don't get that, time expires when 00:00 is hit. Good, bad, indifferent.
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Post by cardsinhand on Feb 1, 2019 11:07:05 GMT -6
There is a particular U12 team that does this in club. They subbed every 1-2 minutes with 1 player each. I asked the ref to warn the other coach, and he did. isn't that part of game management. there are plenty of professional teams that hold there subs for the last few minutes of the game. In USSF, substitutions are one of the things we add time for. It makes sense with a 3/4 sub limit. It it a little tougher when subs are unlimited to add time back for all of them. One referee did it in state cup a few years back, he added 15 minutes to a U13 game which plays a 35 minute half. Doesn't make much sense does it? NISOA stops the clock in the last 5 minutes whenever the team in the lead subs.
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Post by Skippers on Feb 1, 2019 14:56:40 GMT -6
isn't that part of game management. there are plenty of professional teams that hold there subs for the last few minutes of the game. In USSF, substitutions are one of the things we add time for. It makes sense with a 3/4 sub limit. It it a little tougher when subs are unlimited to add time back for all of them. One referee did it in state cup a few years back, he added 15 minutes to a U13 game which plays a 35 minute half. Doesn't make much sense does it? NISOA stops the clock in the last 5 minutes whenever the team in the lead subs. 15 minutes?? That’s crazy!
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