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Post by soccerjunqie on Jan 10, 2007 6:15:39 GMT -6
Have you or any other parent you know been taken from a game in the back of a police unit? I bet if I went into his court room and yelled the same thing about him, I'd be arrested! The answer to the first question is never seen it or lived it. The answer to the second statement is you darn right he would. But, from your posts, it would never happen because you never break the law or yell at officials and regardless he would never yell at you in his courtroom. That is what I don't think people understand. Fussing at refs for most people is not an anger that results in physical aggression, it is an emotion that leads to a loss of composure and results as a verbal response. It usually has nothing to do with their normal personality. People control themselves differently in different situations. Some people have difficulty keeping their mouth shut at athletic events while they remain completely dosial in others. If you are one that can control that emotion then good for you. If your not, then I know how you feel.
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over40player
All-District
coach,player, fan of the game
Posts: 135
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Post by over40player on Jan 10, 2007 7:52:11 GMT -6
First of all let me say the first high school game I went to the ref threatened to throw the whole parent section out. We deserved it, it changed the way I looked at the game and ref's. The different styles of calling games is as different as each person I don't think you will change that, or should. I have played soccer several years and have children who have played for 17 years. Until we look at these people as the reason that we can play this beautiful game and not take this so personally, but thats why it the world most popular sport because it is so exciting and emotional. I think the problem is with the fans, and not the Ref's. If no fans were allowed would the game be different ? Sure I've been in games where a call cost us a goal or a game. If you keep putting the ball in the net sooner or later you win. Coaches and players are not prefect , neither are Refs. Anyone has the power to change that, become a ref. I've done a little of that too its not easy, and I still yell every once and a while. Love the game.
Is there not a convertion where LHSAA, has all the coaches there and could have Ref's attending and have forums on topics of soccer. How many coaches would attend? Is there a coaches association that could invite officals to discuss game calling and rules. I believe there is an organization for both getting they together might be the thing to do. Someone will have to make the first move. Don't the coaches get together at the end of the season and vote on all metro and all state players why not then ?
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Post by brhsoccer14 on Jan 10, 2007 12:04:59 GMT -6
There are very few referees who believe they know it all. Very few. It's true that refs don't know it all because it is very rare to see any of the referees pass his or her written exam with 100% (they do throw some tricky questions in there!). Now, there are the exceptions where a referee will act like he or she knows every rule and he or she's never wrong; I know this because I work with some. But for the most part, the referees are always seeking advice from other referees and lots from coaches too. Maybe they don't ask you rbsoccerinsouth, but thats because judging from your posts on the board, I dont see you as an approachable person after a game. Not saying that you aren't, but just by judging on here which is a very hard thing to do, I wouldn't, I think I'd be too scared : p. Personally, I ask coaches what they think a lot of the time. I know that the EA coach is always asked how we did by one of my friends (referee), and the St. Michael's girl's coach and I are on a friendly basis (before AND after the game ; p). One reason why you wont see some refs ask coaches their opinion is because the referees can determine the coach's knowledge of the game by the things he may shout at the referee during the match. Also, as of right now, there is only one coach that I would listen to almost word for word to what he says (when he isnt coaching) about refereeing and that's because he's an ex-FIFA referee.
"What are the officiating associations doing to improve the level of the coaches around the state?"
Maybe Im missing the point, but I dont think 'officiating associations' have anything to do with the level of coaches... If you meant referees, well there are a lot of things that the associations are doing. We have a training session every month, there are ODP clinics that referees can and do go to, there is the mentor/mentee program, etc.
"And, what can we as coaches do to assist the associations to improve the level of the officiating that takes place at the high school level?"
1) Learn the rules for high school. 2) If you see a factual error, not a judgement call that you think is wrong, notify the local assignor. Enough calls to the assignor from intelligent coaches about a certain referee can definitely do it.
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Post by JustSomeRecPlayer8 on Jan 10, 2007 13:16:31 GMT -6
Believe me, I don't disrespect the parents that take on the role of officiating. I also don't direspect those that love the game and take on the role of an official. There's nothing worse than a parent coach who thinks they know the game. If you're not a parent coach and just a young coach who knows know better, I encourage you to continue you coaching education. So you don't disrespect the parent officals, but parent coaches are some how not okay?
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Post by gatorsoccer4 on Jan 10, 2007 14:21:59 GMT -6
yes it is very hard to make a 100% on the test to become a ref i know i have taken it and made a 98% and involded with soccer for 14 years now but in the class i was in and took the test with people in the class had never seen a soccer match played or never played the sport.
by having a ref that has never truely had field experience on playing or watching alot of soccer they are a step behind those refs who have
i know i have watched football for a very long time and still i could not tell you what they are calling (yes i know its holding, offsides, pass interference, etc.) but i can not tell you how they are getting these calls made
what im trying to say is that i believe that we need refs with more field experience in the game of soccer start with younger kids and make them continue to work there until the assigner along with coaches have decided that the ref has passed what would be more like a field test rather than a written test
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Post by soccerjunqie on Jan 10, 2007 14:51:42 GMT -6
yes it is very hard to make a 100% on the test to become a ref i know i have taken it and made a 98% and involded with soccer for 14 years now but in the class i was in and took the test with people in the class had never seen a soccer match played or never played the sport. This brings to mind a good idea, can a thread be created with questions from the Ref test so that those of us that claim to know rules can be tested? All results posted of course. It would then be put up or shut up time for us soccer parents.
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Post by stafan119 on Jan 10, 2007 19:44:58 GMT -6
Apparently, you can no longer stand up at the soccer games. The ref tonight told us a few times that we couldnt stand up and if we did that he would kick us out. Thats just outrageous.
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dogabone
Bench Warmer
"Give a dog a bone"
Posts: 34
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Post by dogabone on Jan 10, 2007 20:34:03 GMT -6
Apparently, you can no longer stand up at the soccer games. The ref tonight told us a few times that we couldnt stand up and if we did that he would kick us out. Thats just outrageous. Now that there is good officiating, I don care who your are !!!! ................ NOT Now if that is the case, then there is a good example of the wrong kind of officiating, the all familiar ego of "Showing your power" in an insignificant manner.
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Post by JustSomeRecPlayer8 on Jan 10, 2007 21:22:04 GMT -6
Refs are invited guests to the game. (Yes they really are.) The problem with many refs they feel they have to control every aspect including the crowd. When they keep it between the touchlines things usually go smooth. Someone said it on here earlier and I'm too lazy to go quote them, but the best refs are the ones that go hardly unnoticed.
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Shocka
Starter
Oh Fa sho
Posts: 58
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Post by Shocka on Jan 10, 2007 21:53:06 GMT -6
I was at the game........ The kid who got ejected hadn't really said anything even worth a warning much less being booted..... That paticular referee has done many of my games and I can say that he does "abuse" his power sometimes. He was just trying to keep the game running as smooth as possible. I guess u could say he was just trying to stop the "pit crazies" before they got out of hand. I still didn't see the reason the kid got ejected. Did someone hear something I didn't?
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Post by stafan119 on Jan 10, 2007 21:57:53 GMT -6
I was at the game........ The kid who got ejected hadn't really said anything even worth a warning much less being booted..... That paticular referee has done many of my games and I can say that he does "abuse" his power sometimes. He was just trying to keep the game running as smooth as possible. I guess u could say he was just trying to stop the "pit crazies" before they got out of hand. I still didn't see the reason the kid got ejected. Did someone hear something I didn't? haha yea the pit crazies couldnt get started up because we're not the people to sit down at a game. we like to stand up and get into the game. The ref said "yall paid to watch the game to sit down or ill kick yall out" or somethin like that. the one who got kicked out said "you get paid to ref the game and not worry about tellin us to sit down". and the ref said one last time sit down or ill kick you out and so my friend said "you suck". thats why he got kicked out. the ref told him "go to the parkin lot" so he went to his truck, in the parking lot, and sat on the top of the cab for the rest of the 1st half. the ref then told our athletic director who was at the game and he was told to leave the school grounds. I agree about the ref though. the ref worried too much about things going on in the stands instead of on the field.
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dogabone
Bench Warmer
"Give a dog a bone"
Posts: 34
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Post by dogabone on Jan 10, 2007 22:17:36 GMT -6
I was at the game........ The kid who got ejected hadn't really said anything even worth a warning much less being booted..... That paticular referee has done many of my games and I can say that he does "abuse" his power sometimes. He was just trying to keep the game running as smooth as possible. I guess u could say he was just trying to stop the "pit crazies" before they got out of hand. I still didn't see the reason the kid got ejected. Did someone hear something I didn't? haha yea the pit crazies couldnt get started up because we're not the people to sit down at a game. we like to stand up and get into the game. The ref said "yall paid to watch the game to sit down or ill kick yall out" or somethin like that. the one who got kicked out said "you get paid to ref the game and not worry about tellin us to sit down". and the ref said one last time sit down or ill kick you out and so my friend said "you suck". thats why he got kicked out. the ref told him "go to the parkin lot" so he went to his truck, in the parking lot, and sat on the top of the cab for the rest of the 1st half. the ref then told our athletic director who was at the game and he was told to leave the school grounds. I agree about the ref though. the ref worried too much about things going on in the stands instead of on the field. Well in my ole mind, that to me is the ref initiating and/or instigation a problem rather than a coach, player, parent, or fan causing a problem. Hmmmmm, yea that's quality right there....... I don't care who you are, that there is quality officiating.
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Post by snowbird on Jan 11, 2007 0:50:32 GMT -6
Refs are invited guests to the game. (Yes they really are.) The problem with many refs they feel they have to control every aspect including the crowd. When they keep it between the touchline's things usually go smooth. Someone said it on here earlier and I'm too lazy to go quote them, but the best refs are the ones that go hardly unnoticed. That was me and the VERY best refs DO go unnoticed. The game and the players decide the outcome. The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that the refs (especially in HS soccer) don't talk to the players enough. There is nothing wrong with calling a foul and then warning a player...."OK, that's 2 slide tackles from behind....you know what? Do it again and it's a Red Card." Here's my rational and I know all the ref's will bash me for it.....I really don't care because if you EVER played the game you will respect this: Fouls happen. Intent is the thing ref's base alot upon....oh yeah and distance, direction....ok....if you think a player is about to lose control..... DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BEFORE IT HAPPENS!!!!!When you know a player is about to retaliate for an earlier foul...give a verbal warning and say that if they do so they are gone! That would help officials to not lose control of matches. I do not know what this unspoken rule is that says y'all are the "enemy" and we can't talk to you! If you talked to the players once in awhile (not making friends but about the game and what's going on)....alot of the nonsense may be avoided. I am just waiting for the ref's to give me the latest Region 3, sec.4.6.8.3.1-4.64 rule saying "fraternizing with the players is discouraged." Watch a World Cup game.....the officials are constantly interacting with the players and I am sure it's not all pleasant (don't get me wrong here....dissent is unacceptable from HS kids) but they are doing this....MANAGING THE GAME and making sure the Laws of the game are enforced. There is no instant replay here....interpretation is needed at times....a little communication before the fact (to players and coaches) is needed. On a lighter note....to ask again...have you ever seen anyone taken away in handcuffs from a game?
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Post by lakeview on Jan 11, 2007 1:34:18 GMT -6
I agree that referees should always be watching what happens in the stands. It's esay to watch the 22 players on the pitch, 4 coaches, 2 a/r's, the school principal standing next to the football coach, 6 people in the concession stand and 4 standing in line, the guy grilling the brats, 3 fans coming and going from the bathroom, the clock operator, 4-5 ballboys, a photographer or 2, the newspaper reporter, the security guard, 2 tickertakers, and a few parents walking around the track, 5 girlfriends on the girl's team staying around to watch the boy's game, and the obigiltory cheerleaders. Plus all 500 pit crazies..
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Jan 11, 2007 9:53:43 GMT -6
Some referee's will also comment on the play now and then. Saying things such as, Nice Ball, Great Save Keep, Good intensity you too. I think this also goes a long way when keeping control.. Also letting the players know when you seen something and you have given advantage. It lets the players know, they did not get away with it.
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Post by JustSomeRecPlayer8 on Jan 11, 2007 10:44:13 GMT -6
I agree that referees should always be watching what happens in the stands. It's esay to watch the 22 players on the pitch, 4 coaches, 2 a/r's, the school principal standing next to the football coach, 6 people in the concession stand and 4 standing in line, the guy grilling the brats, 3 fans coming and going from the bathroom, the clock operator, 4-5 ballboys, a photographer or 2, the newspaper reporter, the security guard, 2 tickertakers, and a few parents walking around the track, 5 girlfriends on the girl's team staying around to watch the boy's game, and the obigiltory cheerleaders. Plus all 500 pit crazies.. Security guards... at a high school game? That must be to stop the Pit Crazie Hooligans from rushing and ransacking the field. AND I have never been to a game where they grilled brats.
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Post by PutMeInCoach2 on Jan 11, 2007 11:30:40 GMT -6
I agree that referees should always be watching what happens in the stands. It's esay to watch the 22 players on the pitch, 4 coaches, 2 a/r's, the school principal standing next to the football coach, 6 people in the concession stand and 4 standing in line, the guy grilling the brats, 3 fans coming and going from the bathroom, the clock operator, 4-5 ballboys, a photographer or 2, the newspaper reporter, the security guard, 2 tickertakers, and a few parents walking around the track, 5 girlfriends on the girl's team staying around to watch the boy's game, and the obigiltory cheerleaders. Plus all 500 pit crazies.. There was a rule in the past, not sure if it still exist. (Most schools do not follow it). May have been a parish rule, or a state rule. I dont remember. However it stated that their had to be a policeman at every athletic event. Security guards... at a high school game? That must be to stop the Pit Crazie Hooligans from rushing and ransacking the field. AND I have never been to a game where they grilled brats.
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Post by gatorsoccer4 on Jan 11, 2007 11:45:32 GMT -6
My only problem with the game last night was that the officials were a little to worried about controling the crowd rather than just sticking stricktly to the officiating of the soccer game
even players from the other team were begging the refs to just let the players play and not be so concerned about the crowd
also i think the center ref last night did a very good job overall he was always talking to the players when a foul was made and the explained to the player the reason he did or didnt make a call this assured the player that the foul that was committed on him had not gone unseen this allowed for a very well played game between to rival school
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Post by JustSomeRecPlayer8 on Jan 11, 2007 14:10:01 GMT -6
i am in pennsylvania right now so i didn't get a chance to catch the game... therefore i cant comment on the refereeing job... any cards between the two teams?
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Post by stafan119 on Jan 11, 2007 14:26:32 GMT -6
i am in pennsylvania right now so i didn't get a chance to catch the game... therefore i cant comment on the refereeing job... any cards between the two teams? one card. a yellow for a dutchtown player with a hard tackle on Jacob Aucoin. looked like a forearm to the face as he was going down. but it always looks worse than it is.
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