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Post by soccerpunk on Feb 23, 2005 7:36:31 GMT -6
speaking for most public schools, i will be glad when the lhsaa splits private and public. just look at this years finals in both boys and girls and you will know what i'm talking about. people say that in football there is an unlevel playing field, just look at boys and girls soccer. you can't say this is just a coincidence. private schools recruit!!!!!
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Post by enigma on Feb 23, 2005 8:03:07 GMT -6
Well, this year you are correct. Twelve teams total, Lafayette is carrying the public banner in two places, all other teams are private schools.
No, the split will not happen any time soon, they addressed it this past fall (and it did not happen), and the bottom line is Louisiana is too small of a population base to warrant the split.
So enjoy the game and play the game for the love of it.
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Post by soccerpunk on Feb 23, 2005 9:26:45 GMT -6
we do play for the love of it. the problem comes from the private schools that play the "win at all cost" attitude. the playing field needs to be leveled and when football splits in two years so will soccer an all other sports. can't wait!!!!!!!
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Post by AICWildcat on Feb 23, 2005 9:45:58 GMT -6
Yeah, and while we're at it, we just as soon split New Orleans off from the state and make them a seperate division as well. I'm surprised no one mentioned this but of the 6 schools in the finals, only one is from outside the New Orleans area. Seems unfair to me! Note: I'm including Covington in the NO area because they're just north of the lake.
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Post by rivers2 on Feb 23, 2005 10:21:20 GMT -6
I don't see the unfairness in the number of New Orleans schools in the final. The huge advantage in population would seem to me to dictate the quanity and quality of the teams. Throw in an active youth and club enviroment within the city as well. These teams from New Orleans were not placed in the finals, they won the right to play on the field. Perhaps, Wildcat, you have a touch of the "New York Yankee's syndrome" where you would favor any team but the Yankee's but in this case, New Orleans schools. There were two games last Friday played in Baton Rouge within 5 miles of one another ( Parkview and BRHS at Woodlawn) where there was an opportunity to eliminate two New Orleans schools but the better team won. Nothing is unfair with the arrangement in the finals. We'd all like to see our local teams play but such is life. Oh, I'm not from New Orleans either.
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Post by soccerfan14 on Feb 23, 2005 10:28:51 GMT -6
And why don't we separate city schools from rural schools.......do you think a small (1A or below) school can win a state championship in Division III?
You can go down the list of what's fair and unfair....private schools in the cities have the advantage....rural schools are the least likely to win.....but most schools don't have programs with the primary premise of winning the state championship (not to say that some do, but most don't). A lot of schools have programs because their kids want to play and there is interest in playing. Play the game for the beauty of the game, and maybe, just maybe, you can win a state championship. If you don't, you will still remember playing with fond memories.
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Post by rivers2 on Feb 23, 2005 10:57:21 GMT -6
What makes soccer competitive is all you need are 11 players on the same page willing to give themselves to achieve victory. A small rural school has as much chance as a large city school as long as the rules are the same and it's still 11 versus 11. Is this likely..... no, but that's why the games are played and not awarded. I admit it would be easier for a rural basketball team to compete because it probably would be easier to find five versus 11. In the final analysis it will always be about the 11 players and not city/rural or any other equation.
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Post by observer on Feb 23, 2005 11:01:58 GMT -6
I am also from outside the New Orleans area and a public private split is the last thing high school sports need. What happens once the split occurrs, do we then seperate the magnet programs ( Lafayette High School, Baton Rouge HS, Caddo Magnet, Ben Franklin ). Once you start limiting competition the victory has less meaning.
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Post by soccerpunk on Feb 23, 2005 12:09:55 GMT -6
you guys are such hypocrites. one side of your mouth says play for the love of the game and out the other side you say soccer can't make it with a split. what if we split. the kids can't play for the love it then? a split would level the playing field. it would give non-soccer factories a chance to compete, and don't give the " get better and you can compete" load of crap. we all know private schools can go out and get whoever, whenever they wish!!
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Post by rivers2 on Feb 23, 2005 12:29:08 GMT -6
Punk, please sharpen your skills so someone will come get you. I'm sure some private school could write their own ticket with you on board...... us HYPOCRITES will try to win without you..... it will be tough, though...maybe we can bribe the refs. God knows our 11 would never be a match for your 11. What a shame you will never comprehend the thrill of an upset win. The world is not a fair place and not to give you nightmares it's an uphill struggle against unfairness at every turn in the road.Next you can expound on the theory that all men are created equal.
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mfg17
Bench Warmer
Posts: 34
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Post by mfg17 on Feb 23, 2005 12:33:05 GMT -6
I can't speak for Div II and III but in Division I, in 2001, the finalists were Caddo Magnet and Mt Carmel (as a wildcard team); in 2002, the finalists were Mandeville and Mt. Carmel; in 2003, the finalists were Mandeville and Dominican; in 2004, the fianlists were Mandeville and Fontainebleau; and this year the finalists are Lafayette and Mt. Carmel. So, by using simple math, 6 of the last 10 finalists were public schools. I fail to see what being private or public has to do with this fact.
The problem I see is that students at public schools may not have access to club programs and quality coaching to better their game outside of the high school season. Most of the young ladies I know who play soccer play nine months out of the year whether they are in public of private school. It is for that reason that their level of play is greater than those schools whose students can't or don't play year round. This is reflected in the level of play during high school season.
As far as recruiting, I don't know any private school that recruits. There may be some but for the most part, I believe this is a myth. My daughter played for a private school that won two state championships and I know for a fact, due to my close association with the school, that none of the ladies who played on those teams were recruited by the school. That tradition continues today. The school does not recruit players; the players by choice come to the school for its academic reputation as well as its athlectic record. So unless you have some factual proof that a school recruits, please refrain from making such inflammatory accusations.
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Post by sosoplayer24 on Feb 23, 2005 12:37:40 GMT -6
I see we're starting the bashing AGAIN. Let's pull back a little and breath. On the girls side everyone predicted three public schools in the final and MCA. MCA has been kicking butt all year deserve to be there. It's great to see new schools in the finals this year. Congratulations to them.
On the recruiting side I think more parents move their soccer playing girls to these schools more than the schools go out and get them. I don't know how you handle that. The fact that New Orleans is so strong in soccer goes much deeper than private school recruiting. It has more to do with the imigration of people to the area than anything else. You can go to any public park on weekends and see hundreds of people playing the game of their country and sharing it with others. Isn't that what it's all about. I am not from NO's and we also lose to the NO's power houses but I must say the gap is getting smaller and we need the competition to get better.
As a coach at a public school that is trying to move up in the Div I level I thought it would be great to split public and private schools and give our kids a shot at a state title. At this point I don't know how I would vote if it came up. You are not the best until you have beaten the best but if the playing field is not level how do you compete. I don't know if we'll ever answer the question. Good luck on that one.
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Post by rivers2 on Feb 23, 2005 13:36:29 GMT -6
Player, first off... Good luck on your move to Div. I
The playing field is ALWAYS equal when two teams of 11 face each other and follow the same set of rules. What I am reading is that the make up of the 11 on the field is not level at least in the eyes of some of you. Splitting public from private isn't going to get you 22 players of equal stature. There will always be a better 11 than the one you field. Makes no difference whether it be private or public. We all want to win the big game but when I do I don't want a footnote that says there is another champion in another venue. Don't give me the trophy..... make me earn it. This isn't rocket science or some noble socially correct idea of equality ... it's your 11 against mine.... winner take all. If you 11 are better than mine for whatever reason then you'll probably beat me. That's life and that's soccer.
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Post by fan007 on Feb 23, 2005 15:49:15 GMT -6
first off private schools do not recruit!! if you look at bishop sullivan and st. joe those are girls who come from area catholic middle schools and have probably attended catholic schools their whole lives. same goes for parkview their school is k-12. as far as new orleans goes there has always been an overwhelming amount of private schools mainly because they have been around more years then other schools. some of those girls probably have parents that attended those schools and it is a tradition. example: each all girls school has a "brother" school. chapelle's brother school is brother martin. chances are if the dad went to bro. martin the daughter will go to chapelle and vice versa with the mother. yes i'm sure that the players at these schools are able to play "club" ball that doesn't mean that a person going to a public school cannot. there are plenty of businesses who will sponsor. as far as coaching goes. what about sheila achee and brhs she's a public school coach and a very good one. bad coaching is not limited to public schools. i think that splitting up the assoc. so you can win a state championship is ridiculous. i always found that playing against better teams made me a better player. i mean sure you split it up there will be a private school state champion and a publilc school state champion. does that really tell you who the best in the state is? NO!!
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Post by fan007 on Feb 23, 2005 15:51:02 GMT -6
just wanted to add a footnote. no i did not go to a private school. i went to a public school
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Post by philwil on Feb 23, 2005 17:30:46 GMT -6
The underlying problem is NOT public and private. It is a North Louisiana-South Louisiana thing. I am not being pejorative; just trying to shed light on a sore subject.
South Louisiana has always had strong Catholic schools from elementary through high school. These ties are powerful. Ask a Catholic-educated adult, where did you go to school? and there's a great chance he or she will mention his or her high school. In South Louisiana, a significant part of the population attends private schools. These schools will have their fair share of opportunities at championships simply because of their numbers and their traditions.
Another factor is that private schools in the South jumped into soccer many years go. They have established programs. But the North has made great gains! Neville's girls will be contenders for next three years at least. And other teams made good showings this year from Shreveport and Monroe.
A third factor has been stated on this board already. Soccer is a committment that parents make as well as thier players. Private school parents, in general, have the means to transport and finance their child's club experience. Unfortunately, inner city children and rural children have fewer opportunities to participate. The answer, however, is to find a way to be inclusive, not exclusive.
Some of us still see sport as a healthy way to spend our time. State championships are wonderful accomplishments but are not the most important goal of participation in athletics. Being good teammates and supressing selfish decision-making to do so are two more important and noble goals of sport. These goals are attainable by all teams, even ones struggling to compete.
Let's work to raise the tide that lifts all boats not dam the waters with a public-private split. Otherwise, the "beautiful game" will be a little less beautiful.
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Post by AICWildcat on Feb 23, 2005 17:33:16 GMT -6
I certainly hope everyone knows my note was dripping with sarcasm. That's what the smilie is. And to back up Fan007, my daughter played with three of the girls on the St. Joe team (one on the first team all district and two on the second team) in rec as they all went to the same middle school. Only Mallory Hitt went on to play Select. The other two girls played only rec ball since they were young. We chose Redemptorist, they chose St. Joe's. Trust me, there was no recruiting involved. I personally don't think a split is necessary. I just think the sport needs to grow.
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Post by Mung on Feb 23, 2005 18:02:36 GMT -6
Well said AICWC. I'm in Cenla, where soccer lags behind every other part of the state. IMHO the rec/select/ODP programs have much to do with the talent levels of the various teams, as opposed to "recruiting". The rec leagues/teams, opportunities and talent in N.O., Lafayette, BR etc is ten times better than what we have here. We have one U-19 team, on which 5-6 ASH players play, while 75% of the HS players don't even play rec. BTW, I went to public school(Baker) and my kids go to public school(ASH). We have a couple of private schools here, but the education there is no better than the private, so I use my tax dollars.
We used to crush Redemptorist and Catholic back in my day in football and baseball(not hoops), and I don't think recruiting has anything todo with it. Magnet schools can recruit, and kids go where they have the best opportunity to play and be seen by scouts. If we removed the parochial/private schools from the system, the level of competition would suck. Why deprive the kids of the competition? Work harder, and you can beat anyone.
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Post by philwil on Feb 23, 2005 19:57:59 GMT -6
Mandeville and Fontainebleau have great girls' soccer and will continue to be good in the near future. Like Mung observed, they are fed by good clubs and lots of interest in the sport. And both schools have fine academic reputations.
SSA has not taken anyone from them; yet, the have had strong teams for a number of years. When soccer is a legit option with clubs offering Rec and Premier programs, an area has enough good players to make for good competition.
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Post by AICWildcat on Feb 23, 2005 20:37:37 GMT -6
And let's not forget about Dutchtown and East Ascension, both public schools. I know DT has a couple of fine select players but they also have an excellent coach who teaches sound fundamentals and strategy. I don't know the makeup of the EA team this year but I'm sure their situation is similar to DT.
We used to go down to Ascension Parish and play the rec teams there. Man, it was like going to Mandeville! Two and Que, if you know what I mean! They take soccer serious down there. It's all a matter of what you want out of your leagues.
And what about Opelousas? Who would have thought OHS would do as well as they have recently? Why? Because rec soccer is blooming there. The more kids are exposed to a sport in their youth the better the chance they carry that sport into high school. Mung said it well. It's all about exposure to the sport.
Baseball has been around for ever. Every community has Little League, a Pony League, Babe Ruth League. And now softball is big...Girls are exposed to it earlier and earlier. As they are, the sport grows in high school. Now it's hugely successful and LSU and other schools benefit from that success.
As more and more communities get into soccer as a recreational sport, the better the high school programs will be. It's only natural the big cities dominate the championships now. But that will change in time. Everything does.
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