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Post by possessioniskey on Mar 3, 2015 7:01:55 GMT -6
You're obviously just not going to let this go because you're too narrow minded to see any other way. I've never seen someone display such stupidity on this page
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Post by possessioniskey on Mar 3, 2015 7:21:30 GMT -6
And stop with this they play with 10 men behind the ball excuse. Excuse me, but do you watch soccer? Remember when Greece won the European championship? In case you haven't figured it out yet, if you prevent teams from scoring on you, you will do well most of the time. You can tell me that St. Paul's has finishing problems against good defenses, because that is exactly what you are saying. If the USA keep their tough opponents to no goals, I am feeling good and happy. You say that Vandy is a class team, well then put up and play them for the right to be called the best team in the state.
Sps has finishing problems? They didn't score less than 3 goals every game in the playoffs. You want to talk about a good defense, how about St. pauls, they allowed 3 goals all year to louisiana teams where as vandy allowed 10+. So who really has finishing problems
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 8:41:11 GMT -6
Eh.gonna have to disagree with the "top 10 club teams in the country" analogy.
The reality is that St. Paul's would NOT be as good as they are if they did not (some of them) also play high level club ball. Club soccer is more technical and tactical. The ball moves faster.
I seriously doubt any St. Paul's player or parent would disagree with this. It's the high level club play that makes them a dominant hs team. Yes, the team chemistry helps. The coaching helps. But it is nearly impossible to have strong players that just play hs ball from Nov to Feb.
Go to some high level club events and showcases. St. Paul's is certainly elite by La hs standards.but let's not make it more than what it is.
Hall97 - Have been to Dallas Cup, Surf Cup, Jefferson Cup, IMG Showcase, etc. quarters, semis, and finals the last four years and can say confidently that if this year's St. Paul's team trained together as often as many of the top club teams in the country (most DA Clubs excluded), they would be a top 10 club team nationally. My emphasis is on their being able to train like year round club teams as Warrior 16 suggested they may do. Really? First, not all club teams train year round. I'm sure some do. It's safe to say that most club players also play for their hs teams. (Yeah I'm sure there are exceptions.)
Now, I will certainly admit that St. Paul's plays like a high level club team. But speculating that they would be a top 10 club team in the US? If so, which age group? U16? U17? U18? Sorry, I find that very, very hard to believe.
Isn't it illegal for hs teams to train outside of the hs season anyway? (Other than getting together without coaches present. Pickup, strength and fitness training.)
I think trying to legitimately compare a great hs team to a top U17 or U18 club team (top 10 especially) at best purely speculative and at worst, at slightly delusional. If for no other reason that to achieve that level of play you would have to seek a much higher level of competition than what is available in La.
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Post by agsurfer on Mar 3, 2015 8:49:44 GMT -6
And stop with this they play with 10 men behind the ball excuse. Excuse me, but do you watch soccer? Remember when Greece won the European championship? In case you haven't figured it out yet, if you prevent teams from scoring on you, you will do well most of the time. You can tell me that St. Paul's has finishing problems against good defenses, because that is exactly what you are saying. If the USA keep their tough opponents to no goals, I am feeling good and happy. You say that Vandy is a class team, well then put up and play them for the right to be called the best team in the state.
From what you have written regarding this game, I am venturing to believe you were not in attendance. I may be wrong, but you have not given a single tangible occurrence from the game except it was tied and SPS didn't score. Thus, for you to begin to understand what we who witnessed are talking about is an exercise in futility. Simply put, it was not that Vandy had 10 behind the ball, it was they had 10 inside the 18 yard box and when SPS brought the ball near the 18 they dropped 5 into the six yard box area. There is a vast difference between a good defense and the proverbial "parking the bus" scenario. As for being the best team in the state comment, again WOW. When they did play this season, Vandy had ample opportunity to try and win, but their coach obviously didn't consult with you and unilaterally chose to play a not to lose/give up a goal strategy. They achieved their best outcome and kudos for the effort. By your "logic", the 7 teams who beat Vandy should be considered DII co-champs as well as the 4 teams they tied. Brilliance in the making! I suggest you contact the Vandy coach and demand he petition the LHSAA to make his team co-champions of DI, as they tied SPS this season. I am quite sure he'll get right on it. The administration at Vandy determines what division they participate in and could have submitted the paperwork to the LHSAA to play up, but again they didn't consult with you. If you have a problem with Vandy not getting enough attention, welcome to the real world. I'm sure you'll give it another sophomoric attempt.
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Post by Rabid Monkey on Mar 3, 2015 8:54:47 GMT -6
And stop with this they play with 10 men behind the ball excuse. Excuse me, but do you watch soccer? Remember when Greece won the European championship? In case you haven't figured it out yet, if you prevent teams from scoring on you, you will do well most of the time. You can tell me that St. Paul's has finishing problems against good defenses, because that is exactly what you are saying. If the USA keep their tough opponents to no goals, I am feeling good and happy. You say that Vandy is a class team, well then put up and play them for the right to be called the best team in the state.
From what you have written regarding this game, I am venturing to believe you were not in attendance. I may be wrong, but you have not given a single tangible occurrence from the game except it was tied and SPS didn't score. Thus, for you to begin to understand what we who witnessed are talking about is an exercise in futility. Simply put, it was not that Vandy had 10 behind the ball, it was they had 10 inside the 18 yard box and when SPS brought the ball near the 18 they dropped 5 into the six yard box area. There is a vast difference between a good defense and the proverbial "parking the bus" scenario. As for being the best team in the state comment, again WOW. When they did play this season, Vandy had ample opportunity to try and win, but their coach obviously didn't consult with you and unilaterally chose to play a not to lose/give up a goal strategy. They achieved their best outcome and kudos for the effort. By your "logic", the 7 teams who beat Vandy should be considered DII co-champs as well as the 4 teams they tied. Brilliance in the making! I suggest you contact the Vandy coach and demand he petition the LHSAA to make his team co-champions of DI, as they tied SPS this season. I am quite sure he'll get right on it. The administration at Vandy determines what division they participate in and could have submitted the paperwork to the LHSAA to play up, but again they didn't consult with you. If you have a problem with Vandy not getting enough attention, welcome to the real world. I'm sure you'll give it another sophomoric attempt. Very well said! Although I dont believe anything will change his mind. I think his next argument will be something along the lines of "I know you are but what am I?"
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Post by pOkLE on Mar 3, 2015 9:12:40 GMT -6
They achieved their best outcome and kudos for the effort. By your "logic", the 7 teams who beat Vandy should be considered DII co-champs as well as the 4 teams they tied. Brilliance in the making! I suggest you contact the Vandy coach and demand he petition the LHSAA to make his team co-champions of DI, as they tied SPS this season. I am quite sure he'll get right on it. The administration at Vandy determines what division they participate in and could have submitted the paperwork to the LHSAA to play up, but again they didn't consult with you. If you have a problem with Vandy not getting enough attention, welcome to the real world. I'm sure you'll give it another sophomoric attempt. I'm in: Bolton = state champs. I don't see any flaws in this system. Zero.
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Post by loJic on Mar 3, 2015 9:42:00 GMT -6
St Paul's had a great year and played better than any team I watched this year.
Best in history? Who knows? But definitely best this year.
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Post by Soccer Guy 10 on Mar 3, 2015 9:57:10 GMT -6
Can these two teams just play again to shut this guy up?
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warrior16
Data Expert
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Post by warrior16 on Mar 3, 2015 10:29:44 GMT -6
I've never seen a high school team play with the pace and organization St. Paul's had this year. Even when Jesuit had the ball in the attacking third, the Wolves defended so well I never really felt the goal was under any real threat. They just looked so comfortable. Every player from keeper to forward was confident on the ball. Coach Moser should be very proud of the program he's led back to greatness.
As a side note, we tied Vandy as well this year, so Coaches Moser and Shenton can feel free to send their state title trophies to 17521 Monitor Ave. We'll even pay for the shipping and handling.
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Post by possessioniskey on Mar 3, 2015 10:38:39 GMT -6
I think you can make the argument that St Paul's had one of the best seasons ever, however its very hard if not impossible to compare teams from more than 3-4 years apart. Also you're saying since Vanderbilt didn't get scored on by sps, therefore they're a great defense. So now you're implying every team SPS scored on doesn't have a good defense? including Mandeville, NCS (with big rich Humphrey who may be the best CB in state), Jesuit, and all the out of state teams they scored on
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Post by neverplayed on Mar 3, 2015 10:41:07 GMT -6
I would have to think playoff games would be the true judge of who was better in a given year. I am sure we have all seen instances when the better team has lost or tied a match after all we are talking about teenagers but in general I think you get the best effort from both sides when the season is on the line and no one can argue what st pauls did to their opponents in the playoffs.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 3, 2015 13:42:56 GMT -6
Can these two teams just play again to shut this guy up? Right on! That is all I am saying. But, there is a tendency in this state for players, parents, and coaches to heap praise on themselves, when in truth, all they won is a popularity contest.
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Post by Rabid Monkey on Mar 3, 2015 13:49:15 GMT -6
Can these two teams just play again to shut this guy up? Right on! That is all I am saying. But, there is a tendency in this state for players, parents, and coaches to heap praise on themselves, when in truth, all they won is a popularity contest.
C'mon man... You have got to be kidding right? St Paul's players, parents, and coaches are heaping praise on themselves and are celebrating winning a popularity contest??? You must have taken one too many shots to the head while playing. How about this. You should get on the phone with all the schools that you think should be competing in the "Top Tier" and convince them to play up because it sure seems like St Pauls isnt hiding from anyone!
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 3, 2015 13:50:57 GMT -6
And stop with this they play with 10 men behind the ball excuse. Excuse me, but do you watch soccer? Remember when Greece won the European championship? In case you haven't figured it out yet, if you prevent teams from scoring on you, you will do well most of the time. You can tell me that St. Paul's has finishing problems against good defenses, because that is exactly what you are saying. If the USA keep their tough opponents to no goals, I am feeling good and happy. You say that Vandy is a class team, well then put up and play them for the right to be called the best team in the state.
From what you have written regarding this game, I am venturing to believe you were not in attendance. I may be wrong, but you have not given a single tangible occurrence from the game except it was tied and SPS didn't score. Thus, for you to begin to understand what we who witnessed are talking about is an exercise in futility. Simply put, it was not that Vandy had 10 behind the ball, it was they had 10 inside the 18 yard box and when SPS brought the ball near the 18 they dropped 5 into the six yard box area. There is a vast difference between a good defense and the proverbial "parking the bus" scenario. As for being the best team in the state comment, again WOW. When they did play this season, Vandy had ample opportunity to try and win, but their coach obviously didn't consult with you and unilaterally chose to play a not to lose/give up a goal strategy. They achieved their best outcome and kudos for the effort. By your "logic", the 7 teams who beat Vandy should be considered DII co-champs as well as the 4 teams they tied. Brilliance in the making! I suggest you contact the Vandy coach and demand he petition the LHSAA to make his team co-champions of DI, as they tied SPS this season. I am quite sure he'll get right on it. The administration at Vandy determines what division they participate in and could have submitted the paperwork to the LHSAA to play up, but again they didn't consult with you. If you have a problem with Vandy not getting enough attention, welcome to the real world. I'm sure you'll give it another sophomoric attempt. Hell No I was not in attendance. I was watching real competitive soccer where the good teams play one another. My post is not about Vandy or St. Pauls per say. It is about all of the best teams playing for the title, instead of one or two of the best teams play here, two other best teams play here, and the other best teams play here. As for Vandy, they could have followed St. Paul's role years ago and played up so my point is a knock against them for not playing up just as it is a knock for LHSAA. As for the finishing, all I hear from the St. Paul's crowd is well they played 10 behind the ball and blah blah. Again, that tells me what is poor finishing. Yes, you won a predistrict tournament on your own field. Congrats. But, at the end of the year, when it mattered, there were teams that could hang with you and even beat you that were prevented by the LHSAA from playing you. As for the casual fan, it doesn't draw their interest and hearing and reading about how great you are doesn't change the fact that you played a limited tournament where some of the best teams in the state could not challenge you.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 3, 2015 13:54:41 GMT -6
Now I have said my peace and got you guys to think about these things and that is all I wish to do. I will go back to my nether world and follow professional soccer, but for these past few days, we have had something to talk and argue about. I will in the future discuss these things just as I discussed them 10 years ago. Till the LHSAA and LSA develops our players to compete at the National level consistently, I will continue to bring up those things that are holding our state and country back at the national level.
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Post by soccerdad82 on Mar 3, 2015 14:04:54 GMT -6
Looks like they won another popularity contest ! Maxpreps final ranking list St. Paul's School as the #1 team in the nation. Congrats to Coach Moser and his program.
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Post by possessioniskey on Mar 3, 2015 14:11:36 GMT -6
Teams that could hang with you at the end of the year? They won every playoff game 3-0 or more. What do you consider "real" soccer.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 3, 2015 14:16:00 GMT -6
Real soccer is when the speculation is left out. Fact is, schools like Ben Franklin, Vandy, and St. Louis and others were not allowed to compete and based on your previous game where a young Vandy team tied you on their field before finding their mojo, tells me that your limited tournament to define a Division I champion has problems that I have addressed. I don't rely upon Faith and speculation. I like empirical evidence and just because you beat other teams 3-0 does not mean you would have beaten these other teams 3-0, especially when they have already demonstrated to you on your home field that they could hold you scoreless.
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Post by aderitter on Mar 3, 2015 14:36:25 GMT -6
Well.... I don't even get in this argument for I have not seen a team play since 1999 as well as the 99 Jesuit squad..including my teams and including the last 15 years state championships I have seen since. Wish all of you could have seen them. 31 and 0 and no ties. By the way, I believe they were ranked #1 in the NSCAA poll at that time which having a Louisiana team in that list was unprecedented. Still, 'best' is a matter of opinion, fun to argue and a waste of time for it can't be proven one way or another.
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Post by usasoccerboy on Mar 3, 2015 14:44:30 GMT -6
Well.. I don't even get in this argument for I have not seen a team play since 1999 as well as the 99 Jesuit squad..including my teams and including the last 15 years state championships I have seen since. Wish all of you could have seen them. 31 and 0 and no ties. By the way, I believe they were ranked #1 in the NSCAA poll at that time which having a Louisiana team in that list was unprecedented. Still, 'best' is a matter of opinion, fun to argue and a waste of time for it can't be proven one way or another. Coach deritter, it is probably best you didn't get into this part of the conversation as in truth, I am stirring the pot and challenging people on their assertions about praising themselves for being the best. You were a stellar coach and ran a good program that brought your team up in class. I have heard your radio show and commend you for trying to generate interest in the sport and high school game. Your contention for Jesuit 1999 seems to be a valid choice and I cannot argue with that selection. St. Paul's 2013 deserves to be in the mix too as they had a great year as well. But, like I say, if you pool your smaller schools away from the big schools, and then say only the big schools can be in the conversation of best ever, since the smaller schools have no chances of competing and challenging for the top prize in high school soccer, then like we saw this year in college football, we the prognosticators are going to be guilty of making some errors.
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